Episode 40: Robert Creekmore Interview

Rasta
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the Writer’s Triangle, cinnabar moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Robert Creekmore, author of Prophet’s Debt. Robert, how you doing today?

Robert
You can call me, Rob. Everybody does because my dad is Robert senior. So everybody just calls me Rob has for most of my life. But let me just say that every time you say that on your podcast, all I can think about is Silence of the Lambs, where they go to the laboratory to identify the moth they found. And then the guy says, say hello to Mr. Asteron, two sticks better known to his friends the death’s head. So I suppose that I will be a death’s head this time. But that kind of moth I can choose to be.

Rasta
Well, there you go. You’re Rob, the death’s head moth.

Robert
Just call me Rob. We’ll keep you know, we’ll we’ll keep it. We’ll keep it short. And just call me Rob. Okay, that works. So profits that is coming out on this upcoming Tuesday, the fifth of July? And are you feeling excited about the release of profits? I mean, who wouldn’t be it, you spent a lot of time, you know, in isolation working on a piece. And just hoping that someday that that piece will get out into the hands of someone else, and influence them in a positive way? How could I not be extremely excited about that prospect. I mean, it brings me back to when I was a kid living in rural North Carolina, which is where I still am. And now to go to the library. And I’d be so excited to go into to get all these books, and bring them home and look through and read them. And those authors to me were like superstars, you know, anybody who had a piece published, and then there were people whose books I would read, and they would be long dead. But to me, they’re in my ear, then. And to me like thinking that one day, maybe someone will go to the library long after I’m dead, pick up my book, and then I will be whispering to their ear from across the ether. I mean, how could I not be excited about that? I used to go and I look, I look at like where the car is in the Dewey Decimal System and that library and go, that’ll be where my book is one day. And so I guess that I finally arrived at that day.

Rasta
We finally have. And so speaking it sounds like the writing has been one of your dreams since you’re very young. Oh, yeah. How long ago did you start writing Prophet’s Debt?

Robert
Well, Prophet says my second book, I wrote my first book in 2014 is called a fear, I fear is a science fiction novel. Now, the thing is, science fiction is my passion. I love science fiction. But I think a lot of what I was doing when I wrote a fear, I was trying to emulate someone else I’m trying to be Kurt Vonnegut, you know, and while I love science fiction, and this book that I wrote, I have a lot of pride in, it may not have been the genre I should write in, and I may have been imitating others. So when I decided to write another novel, I thought about trying a different genre, and I’m not really sure what genre process that is. It’s dark, it’s horror is thriller. It’s LGBTQ+, and autism, you know, autistic characters, it’s Southern Gothic, it’s revenge. It’s everything, you know, that I could possibly throw in it, to make it something that would be accessible to anyone who wants to put their hands on it. And, you know, it’s an adventure.

Robert
It’s all of those things, you know, and it’s, it’s something that, you know, I wanted to write characters from my area who don’t get a lot of stuff written about them. And people like myself, like, I’m autistic. You know, nobody talks about it. Well, they talked about the South End talk I like about it as a monolith. A lot of people don’t talk about the South, about the diversity in the South and the people from the South who are not this stereotype that that a lot of us have been portrayed as, and I wanted to pull out those people and see, see this, these characters here, these these folks here, they exist here too, just like everywhere else. And there’s a verse. We hear is diversity everywhere and then come see, ya know. And that’s what I decided to do with this book.

Rasta
So it sounds like your origin point for writing came with with your original book was oriented towards something that looking back on it, you think it’s a you love the work that you’ve done, but maybe it doesn’t allow you to fully express your own self in your own original way.

Robert
Right? You know, I’ll bear cam who wrote what he would call practice books. So I kind of like feel like a ferret. My first book was kind of a practice book now, I wrote a fear I when I was starting to have a kind of psychological meltdown. And I wrote it in like four and a half months. And so, you know, it’s this relatively coherent, you know, but, you know, I can see the mania that it was there at the time was writing the book. And then I look at the book that I’ve written, that I’ve written this Prophet’s Debt, and I see that I was very, you know, particular and meticulous about how I wrote it instead of frantic. So that that’s, that’s kind of the big difference. And I just don’t think that me, myself, am a good sci fi writer. So, you know, why not get the practice in? I got to practice in and then I went for something else. And went with the, it was dark. And, you know, I mean, there’s a lot of darkness and all of us, and I thought, why not take that and deal with it in a positive manner? And put it on the page.

Rasta
Okay, and so you, you mentioned that in 2014, is when you wrote your first book, and then when did you start writing Prophet’s Debt?

Robert
So 2014 I’m sorry, I got off. I ramble. But that’s fine. I’m a writer is kind of expected for me to be a little strange. So I wrote that in 2014, not long after that, I ended up in a psychiatric hospital, because well, I was having a psychiatric meltdown. You know, and that was for the best after I got out. My, my wife suggested, well, I had therapist that suggested that I should do journaling, right. And that’s a very, this wonderful thing to do journaling for people going through stuff, and I was dealing with some stuff from my childhood. And I’m not really someone who wants to write something. That’s, that’s not an allegory for per se, like something that’s really just, you know, me and wide open, even if I’m the only one that’s going to read it. So my wife gave me a writing prompt, I’m not gonna give you the prompt, because it would be kind of it would kind of give away a little bit books. But she gave me this writing prompt.

Robert
It’s so around 2016 or so? She said, Well, if you’re not going to journal, why don’t you do this, you know, I’ll give you a writing prompt. You’ve written a book before, write another book. So she gives me the writing prompt. So I stopped, I just I just sit the blank page, I just start writing. And because I was still dealing with a lot of stuff in mind you it’s pretty much lifelong. I’m have psychiatric issues, and they’re things that I’m dealing with, I’m always going to regress and progress and regress. But I started putting that on the page. And then I would take a few days off or a few weeks off here a few months off. So I think it probably took me three years, I got to a point where I had kind of a rough draft of it. And the rough draft I had was written kind of in like immediate rest where I started in the middle of the story, and then I have my character telling the story to someone else, and then catching up to them. And, and anyway, that that was really the way it worked best for me personally, but in product didn’t end up like that. But as the therapy tool, the therapy tool that this book was originally is very different than the book that it would become but it’s still very much a part of that book.

Rasta
Okay, so it started off as a way for you to process everything that you’re going through. And then from there, you took it and you… refined it and changed it into the story that it is today.

Robert
That’s correct. Actually, that was. Yeah, that was a suggestion of Kisstopher’s that, that I change. And so that’s kind of how the current book that we have now came to be.

Rasta
Okay. So what would you say that process was like for you, of going through with the starting of it, and using it as a, as a therapy tool, and the process of then taking the thing that was originally a therapy tool and turning it into the book, the story that is today?

Robert
Well, the process was originally. You know, I don’t think I took it seriously at first. But as the as it snowballed and became this bigger and bigger thing, I became kind of protective of it, and then very secretive of it. And I was the only one that had access to it. So eventually, what happened is I gave it to, I gave it to my wife. My wife liked it, because she actually liked my first novel better in this original form, because my wife is also like me, she really loves science fiction. So she was very much enamored with my science fiction novel, not as much the first version of this novel, but the version that is in now she she likes quite a bit. But so what happened is that so about 11 months ago, there was a, I don’t know how I got this comment on my Twitter page. But it’s from this really great writer named CW Allen, she writes middle grade books. I like her a lot. And she wrote something along the lines of there’s a place for anime heroes, but I don’t like it when there’s not consequences or growth art.

Robert
So Kisstopher, I suppose it was Kissstopher, Cinnabar Moth Publishing. said on Twitter, we agree that some stories are unless the villain is meant to be redeemable and sympathetic, some people are irredeemable. And I reply, someone asked me the moral of my second novel, and I said, Well, some motherfuckers be killing. Okay, so out of that interaction, that was about 11 months ago, it’s like last July or August. I got in contact with cinnabar moth, specifically, Kissistopher from cinnabar, moth, and Kisstopher asked for the first 50 pages of what would become Prophet’s Debt wasn’t called Prophet’s Debt at the time, and I’m not going to say what it was called, because that’s the thing it kind of gives away part of the story. But anyway, I gave Kisstopher the first 50 pages. And Kisstopher liked a lot. But the issue was the way that it was written, it was written in a third person, way. And so Kisstopher’s like, if you will write this in first person, we’ll publish it. I was kind of taken aback because, you know, I’ve never really intended to have us at all I, I really never wait, write query letters or anything like that, for his novel. It’s just something that I had sitting around.

Robert
So I jumped at that opportunity. And I was like, Sure thing, I’ll rewrite the entire novel, which I did. And it was a bit of an ass pain. Because, of course, there was new stuff I had to write. And it wasn’t just turning it from third person to first person. I had to kind of weave together some of the chapters from from certain parts, and move on to the beginning of the book and move some stuff in the first part of the book to middle of the book, and then end of the book. And I eventually rearranged all my pieces to make this new puzzle, and made a picture that I think really shows a better a portrait of what I was trying to express in the first place. And I’ll Oh, because for a lot for that, because they said that. If you know you were to do this, I think you’ll like your novel better. And that was correct. Because when I was done With it, I like Prophet’s Debt so much better. And I, you know, so that that’s how it came to be. It was just, it was this piece of like journaling allegory that I wrote over the course of years, and then offset it, you know, over a course of six months became a novel, I actually finished it on Christmas Day of last year. Yeah, I wrote for about six hours on Christmas Day and put the nail in and was finally done with the structure.

Rasta
Okay, so it sounds like it was a process over many years. And that it truly will felt like an evolution for you. And you actually, part of the evolution came from you coming into contact with Cinnabar Moth publishing via Twitter, which you are correct. Kisstopher does handle the Twitter account. And so Kisstopher got in contact with you. And you got in contact with Kisstopher and through that collaboration, the book evolved and changed and you liked the end result better, which is nice. I’m happy to hear that you

Robert
Kisstopher said that I would definitely like that the writers she works with then go through this process is hard. At the end, you will like it better. And everything Kisstopher said was exactly that on the money. I like it better. And it was a better book. It was hard work. But it’s a better book for it.

Rasta
Yeah, I’ve I’ve worked with Kisstopher with my book as well. And it’s not easy getting the feedback to be like, okay, but this story would make more sense if you chose to adjusted it in this way. Or are you sure that really works with the system that you’ve built up to this point and having be honest with myself and go… Kisstopher’s right. This doesn’t quite make as much sense as I would if I did these adjustments.

Robert
But the thing is, you see it in your head as a writer. And but it’s difficult to see it from another person’s perspective. And it might hurt your feelings a little bit. But in the long run, getting your feelings hurt a little bit is worth it if you can tell that story better for someone else. And so I didn’t really get my feelings hurt. I actually appreciated it. And and ran with it. Because hard work is what art is art is always hard work. It’s this idea that like he’s he’s insane, creative people and just comes to them like, so he’s that’s not true. Every artist, every artists you’ve ever heard of every writer Do you ever heard of that was worth anything, put in hard, hard work with their product.

Rasta
I mean, it’s it’s a it’s a skill, right. And every skill requires the effort to get good at it. And to learn the techniques, learn the theory, and apply some mastery to it. And there’s obviously different styles, you look at different styles of painting those different genres and styles of writing. And all these different forms of expression come are the culmination of that person’s experiences as well as the effort and the time that they’ve taken to refine the way that they communicate it to the people around them using whatever medium that they’re using.

Robert
That’s right. That’s right. And it’s basically hurt and experience distilled into something that’s meaningful that you can hand someone else and they get some kind of joy that that’s what I think art is.

Rasta
I think that’s a beautiful way to look at it. And so from from the sound of it, you decided to publish with us at cinnabar moth partially because of the collaboration with Kisstopher and also because of the the offer being made by Kisstopher to publishing, would that be correct?

Robert
That would be definitely correct. I would not have written such a good novel without just absolutely not.

Rasta
I’m glad that we – that Kisstopher was able to help you and that you feel better about your book. Having gone through that process. I’m sure Kisstopher would feel very happy to know that as well. And with with this process with poublishing with cinnabar moth, what would you say has been the most surprising thing thing about publishing with us specifically?

Robert
Well, the thing about my work, this work per se is And it’s been very, it’s very dark is very disturbing. And it’s, you know, and there’s a lot of content in there that it’s difficult to deal with. But it’s the kind of thing that should be dealt with. And cinnabar moth didn’t shy away from that. And you know, in fact, they want to shine a light on that kind of thing. So that has been the best thing about being on cinnabar moth is a having a partner, who’s who’s willing to look at all the disturbing, and the dark, and frightening. And go, Yeah, you know what, that is frightening. That’s scary. But we want to show the world that, you know, not everything is beautiful, like a rainbow. But some things are beautiful in other ways. And sometimes the process of become something is ugly, and scary. But, you know, that process is there, that’s a real thing. And these things really happen, these horrible things really happen. And but you know, it can be like a seed and something beautiful can come out of it. So that’s not something that a lot of publishers would want.

Rasta
So you’d say the most surprising thing was level acceptance from us?

Robert
Yeah, it’s absolutely the level of acceptance, and the the dealing with and willing to accept the ugly things, and that the ugly things can also bring forth beautiful things, too.

Rasta
Yeah, we we definitely do. I’ve talked with Kisstopher and I’m part of, obviously, I’m part of the team, I work here. But we we have talked about and talked about the reality that these different genres have their place in these different styles of books, dark stories, as well, as you know, lighter stories both have a place in the in the publishing world and a right to be published.

Robert
And the thing is, sorry, go ahead. Sorry, Rasta.

Rasta
It’s no problem with the, in particular, I think the the mainstream versus like the indie publishing world do have their own kind of takes on these types of things where oftentimes, some of these stories don’t get accepted, because there’s a hesitation about discussing topics that may be sensitive for people, rather than being like, hey, these may be sensitive topics, but they deserve a spotlight to be discussed in a way that or to be seen and understood.

Robert
Correct. And the thing is, despite all the disturbing this vital that dark Prophet’s Debt is really a love story. And it may be difficult. Well, when you read the first chapter, it won’t be difficult to see. But as you go into the descent, of how the novel goes, in might become obfuscated later on. But remember, the entire novel is actually a love story. So that that’s something that you have to keep in mind. As you read everything Naomi Pace is for love. Naomi Pace is my protagonist.

Rasta
Yeah.

Robert
Everything she does is for love. And I know that might be difficult to believe when you’re in the middle of it, you’ll see.

Rasta
I’m sure that the potential readers will read it will understand once they’ve gotten through the book, that it is a journey that they will have to take.

Robert
It is a journey. And it’s a sometimes painful and sometimes very enjoyable journey. But it is that indeed.

Rasta
And so with profits that is coming out this upcoming Tuesday, and you’ve now gone through this entire process, you’ve written it, and you done the work to make the adjustments working with Kisstopher and going through all of that. And then you’ve also gone through the process of publishing a book with everything that entails. What would you say has been the most surprising aspect of publishing a book. And that experience, if there was anything surprising about publishing at this time, I know that you’ve published one before, right?

Rasta
No, I didn’t publish them before. It’s self published, which, you know, like, self publishing, I didn’t know how to do it. Well, I know a lot of people do it really well. And so I was clueless, I basically put it up on Amazon. And some people read it, some people liked it. But you know, as long as one or two people liked it, that was good enough for me at that time. You know, at this one, I didn’t write for publication. So it’s, it’s, it’s a bit, it’s a bit odd, you know, to see this out in the world. That was, the thing about publishing is, because I’m so clueless. What I focus on is doing the writing itself. I don’t know much about the industry, I don’t know anything about promotion, or things like that, what I try to do is to bring something to the publisher, or that is beautiful, and, but ugly, at the same time, just like a classic car. It’s gorgeous. It has dings in it. You know, like I tried to bring that to auction, you know, just like a 59 Chevy, that bring the auction this gorgeous shape. But he’s got some things and people like that, because it’s authentic. Right has a bit of personality to it. That’s right. So for me, the autonomy has been great about working with cinnabar moth. But as far as like surprising for publication, I don’t know much about what’s going on. I really don’t I just do the best I can with the writing. And when asked, Hey, can you answer these questions? I just do the best I can. But the truth is, I am clueless. Absolutely, utterly clueless. And I think that’s okay. Because, you know, while publishing is a business, and all reality, what I am as an artist, and that’s what’s great about publishers, and agents, and things like that, they take something, somebody who’s kind of esoteric, and weird and strange, that makes this piece as thin as painting this, this, this book, or whatever, and they make it palatable and, and get it to as many people as possible. So I really appreciate those people that take my whatnot and go here, hey, look at this, this is gorgeous, you would love this and put it up there as something we know that I can’t do myself. And I really love that about cinnabar. Moth.

Rasta
Thank you. It’s great to hear these positive things that you’re having a very positive experience with this, and that you’ve had a positive experience with the publication of profits.

Robert
Absolutely.

Rasta
And so it is coming out soon. Do you have any plans to celebrate the release of Prophet’s Debt?

Rasta
Well, here’s the thing. Well, prophet’s is going to be released on a Tuesday, right? Next Tuesday. So if I think about me as this one, I live in a rural North Carolina, so there’s nothing around me to go do this is, you know, like, I know one other published author in this town, she owns a coffee shop. Well, you know, coffee shop closes at three o’clock. So I’m not necessarily going to go down there and be like, Oh, you’re going to party 12 in the afternoon. But on Tuesdays, I go and I do what’s called a scan. amoenus Arvato is for depression. I have really severe depression. And it’s a ketamine derivative. It’s a party drug, quite literally. So on Tuesday, next, when my books getting published, I’m going to be at a doctor’s office, legally, with the permission of the federal government, the United States under the auspices of a doctor tripping my face off. So I guess that’s what I’m going to do for celebration. Other than that, I’m probably going to come home, pass out and the next day start writing again.

Rasta
Okay, so it sounds like you’re you don’t really have anything special planned, necessarily, but you do have things going on.

Robert
I do and I’m always busy, but I’m also always writing and so really, that day is going to be like any other day like every every day that I’m not doing I don’t I don’t write on days I do a scatter mean, but by the way that works really really well. It has helped my depression quite a bit. I know people are like big pharma is bad. But Big Pharma has helped my life quite quite a bit. But on those days I don’t write, but most other days, I do, I write probably six days a week, so I’m probably going to go do my treatment. And Wednesday night, I’ll be back to writing. And I’ll probably write every day, even days, I’d go out and celebrate, let’s say I go to a bar and celebrate alcoholic come home or write a few pages. Because that’s, that’s, it’s just that outlet, you know, like, yeah, something I can’t get anywhere else, you know,

Rasta
Your writing is in its own way, a unique way of being able to get thoughts out of your head onto paper and to allow them to have a shape and a form.

Robert
And then I have to have all these voices in my head. And all these voices, they really wished for these great ideas for novels and ideas. And, and they, once they whisper them, I have to put them down on paper. If I don’t put them down on paper, they’ll drive me absolutely batty. So I it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of, it’s kind of like, you know, throwing out something that you need to throw out and you know, not like garbage, per se, but something that has to get out, you know, that has to exit me somehow. And then that’s how it exits me, just like I did when I was using as a tool for therapy. That’s bad stuff as to exit my mind. Sometimes good stuff.

Rasta
Yeah, it’s a bit of both. And so you mentioned earlier that you’re, your wife has been supporting you through your process with writing. Has she or the other members of your family been excited about Prophet’s Debt release?

Robert
Well, first place, let me just say, the original novels, title, which I won’t say was the, we were riding in the car to one of my treatments on a Tuesday, she actually named the novel, the current name, she came up with that while we were driving in the car to one of my treatments. But of course, she’s, she’s gotten so used to the idea. Because as you can imagine that this has been going on from for almost a year now. Right in the process. And of course, she’s watching you write to this book, and the book before. So would I say she’s, you know, jumping up and down, no. You know, and no one else in my family is either because when you watch me make the sausage is the people say, you don’t want to eat it. So they’ve watched me make the sausage. And that’s given them they appreciate. But I think that the excitement over it is is a long pass.

Robert
So my mother has pre ordered a copy, I don’t know how good of an idea that was for her. Mind you there’s nothing in this book that is a reflection of my parents in any way, or my sibling any way whatsoever. But it is a really disturbing book. And I kind of do wonder about my mother reading this book and go oh, my, you know, and ended up told her I say like, look, it’s fiction, and understand all the scary stuff you see and discussing stuff on TV or that you read because my mom reads a lot is fiction, don’t let it be a reflection on you or me or anyone else. Just fiction. I do have one person that is my OG fan. And I’m giving her a hardback copy of this novel. And I think she’s most excited. She’s more excited than anyone about that prospect. So I do at least have one person kind of giddy jumping up and down. And I’m going to sign a copy and give it to him.

Rasta
Oh, that’s great. I’m glad that you have a fan that you can have that excitement from and that you’ve had support from your family throughout this entire process.

Robert
I wouldn’t say that. Mother. My mother has definitely been supportive of my writing, but that’s about it.

Rasta
Oh, well you… have support.

Robert
Oh, well, you know, now don’t get me wrong. My sister too. But yeah, that’s that’s my mother, my sister been great. I’m not going to go into the negative. So there you go.

Rasta
The positive thing is you’ve had some support.

Robert
Absolutely. I have great people in my life. My wife, my friends. My mother, my sister have been great about the whole thing.

Rasta
There you go. So with, with you having had the support and everything, I think that’s wonderful. And having a family, who you’re going to be able to give a signed copy to, I’m sure that your family will love that. That will be very exciting for her. I want to go back a bit to what you had said earlier, you mentioned when you were a kid that you often visited the library for books and that you were thinking about, you know, looking yourself up, and then you look yourself from the Dewey Decimal System. And you have this very strong bond with libraries as a source of being able to experience authors and Experience Books. With that, how does it feel to know that your book will be listed in the US Library of Congress?

Robert
Well, you know, I’m gonna get, I’m gonna get a little morose here for a second. You know, I’m in the United States, right. And based on the kind of creeping acquiescence of fascism here, I don’t necessarily find it being listed in the Library of Congress is particularly reassuring. I do like, I do have concerns about the stability of my country, and also what it could very well mean to be an author who writes about the queer community, and the communities that are not exactly looked upon with positivity by some of the folks who seek to gain power and my country. So while if the Library of Congress continues to be the system, then it is the fact that one day long from now they I could be whispering in the ear of some body who is having a hard time and tell them hey, look, you know, it’s gonna be okay. Through my character. That’s super, but I’m quite concerned, you know, with the system that holds up the Library of Congress itself.

Robert
Scary. This was scary shit going down in the United States? Man. I think we’ll live I think we’ll get through it. But it doesn’t mean that I’m not afraid. And I don’t have concerns.

Rasta
Of course, yeah, I do think that political climates and the US situations that might be going on right now can be a cause for concern, and that’s totally reasonable.

Robert
Well, I’m sorry, go ahead. I’m an interrupter.

Rasta
It’s not a big deal.

Robert
So with that, A, I do think that it’s understandable to have some uncertainty, it’s an uncertain time. It’s not the majority of the citizens of the United States. It’s just a peculiarity of our electoral system that gives people like that outsized power, most people in the US stand against that kind of censorship and hatred. And I think that it might not be reflected in our government. But it is a fact that most people don’t care for that. And that’s something I think the rest of the world should note that often, we’re not representative rip represented by our elected officials, in a manner in which we the majority, think and care about.

Rasta
So it’s a it’s an unfortunate situation, but you did mention that it would be exciting to be able to, if you could have certainty about it, know that your book would be something that someone could pick up and read at library and can connect with?

Robert
Absolutely. And, you know, it allows me to show them the time that I lived in. And show them the way that that time that I live in his made, the time that they live in the future, but also show them that really, people haven’t changed. And you know that the lived experience that I have is obviously different than someone who lived 100 years ago, or 100 years from now, but the essence of the human experience and the human, you know, viscera is still the same. And that’s kind of what I want to hopefully put out there. Just now. Now but in perpetuity,

Rasta
I think that’s a wonderful message to watch out there and to have the immortalized to your written word, so to speak.

Robert
In a minor fashion. Yes.

Rasta
So with with your you have all this coming up with the Prophet’s Debtp with its upcoming release. And once it’s released, it’s sort of the process for it kind of finishes. Right?

Robert
Right.

Rasta
What do you hope happens next?

Robert
As far as what I hope happens with Prophet’s Debt? Or what am I working on?

Rasta
What you hope happens next with Prophet’s Debt, or if you have some things you’re working on, you want to talk about a little bit?

Robert
Well, obviously, I hope profit set sells a whole bunch of copies. You know, who does it so that’s what I hope happens next, it sells a whole bunch of copies, libraries, pick it up, and hand it out to young people to read on mass for free. But of course, like every author, like every artist, I’m on to the next thing for me prophets debt, wiped my hands at that in early part of 2022. Right now, I’m about 204, or five pages into a new novel that I plan on having done around the beginning of fall. And I also have a novella, that I’m so hoping that I have time and creativity to complete by the end of the year. So by the end of the year, I hope to have completed a new novel, and a new novella. But we’ll see about the novella, because I haven’t began working on it yet. Because I can’t work on two things at one time.

Robert
My mind doesn’t work like that. I’m sure there are people that write two books at one time. I’m not that person. But right now, I’m, you know, more than halfway maybe 60% through a new book that I plan on having done, you know, like I said in a few months, and then I really, really, fingers crossed hope that I can get to work on a novella right after that now have the stamina and the creativity to move forward. So that’s what I’m working on. Okay, no, no spoilers, though. Don’t get anything out to me.

Rasta
I won’t try. I won’t try. I believe you. So you, you’ve mentioned that writing is something that you think you’ll probably be doing your entire life. And are you hoping or wanting writing to also be a career or is it just something that you plan on doing?

Robert
Well, careers? Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve ever read him read into the wild by Jon Krakauer?

Rasta
I don’t believe I have no.

Robert
Okay, well, they made a movie out of it. Sean Penn made the movie anyway. But I love the book back, you know, back in the day, it books been out for almost 20 years now maybe a little longer than I can’t remember. Anyway, Jon Krakauer wrote this book about this kid named Chris McCandless, right. Chris McCandless is a real person. He graduated from Emory back in the 1990s. And he went off, and he donated all of his money to charity. He’s a rich kid, donated all his money charity, took off in his car, out west burned everything in his wallet from his cash to his ID left his car there and hitchhike around the country, ended up in Alaska, unfortunately, he perished in Alaska because he starved to death. But before that happened, he said to a man who was a father figure in Hindi. His last name was France. He said something along the lines of Mr. France. I think careers are a 20th century invention, the invention, and I don’t want to have one. And that’s kind of how I look at careers as a whole. I mean, it’s our does that art support me financially? Look, am I willing to sacrifice to make the art support me financially?

Robert
I would love it if all the stuff that I put on the page was lauded by, you know, critics and whatnot, and, you know, and they paid me heaps of money for it that I could then in turn, donate to organizations that deserve it more than I do. But I don’t first see that actually happening. So I try to look at the things that I can have, versus the things I want to have. Maybe I want to have a new electric car. But currently, I can’t afford one. So I’m driving this 15 year old car. So this one’s just true. So I put this electric car out of my mind and say, Okay, right now, I can’t have that car. So I don’t think about it. So I don’t think about an idea of a career, from the writing. I think that careers are something that are contrived to give you the money that you need to live your life, I’m pretty happy living the life I live. And now I’m hoping that my art does provide that if it doesn’t, then I’m not going to be upset, because it’s something that I never expected to have in the first place. And I’ve put out of my mind of having an of course, I’m not going to change my art, to have it. So you know, I’m not going to suddenly start writing something that’s opposed to the way that I think and I feel just to get a paycheck. So you know, ideal world, that’d be rad, we’ll probably not. So I’ll just put it out of my mind.

Rasta
So that’s something where you’ll take it if it comes, but it’s not something that you’re going to go out of your way to do, you’re going to be your focus is on having artistic expression. And being true to that.

Robert
Yeah, I don’t have a choice, man, I gotta, I gotta put those words on paper, or, you know, the voices in my head that tell me to put the words on the paper, or like, Come on, now. You get to it, or we’re going to start bothering you even more. So you know, it’s it’s not optional, even if those pages don’t get out to the world.

Rasta
So on a follow up on this, I, you mentioned that you don’t really put these things in mind. Or rather, you don’t think about desire for these things that you can’t really control.

Robert
That’s right.

Rasta
But if we imagine, for example, that Prophet’s Debt were to become a best seller, do you think that you would do anything with that? Or would it just be like, cool that happened, and then you just move on?

Robert
Basically, cool that happen. And I would sit down and continue writing like, yes, the thing is kind of like, Oh, cool. I’ve published a novel, which is insane, because I never thought that would happen. Especially with the kind of stuff that I’m working with, and being like an allegory and working on being a therapeutic tool. It’s, it’s just, you know, that’s insane that it happened to begin with. So for me, everything after this is just a topping on top of ice cream sundae, man. So like, if that were to come to pass, you know, it’s like, oh, that’s insane. That’s great. I gotta get back to writing. So, you know, because that’s just where my heart is, and where I’ve got to be. So there would be a brief moment of time where I’m like, this is cool. Okay, let me go to my keyboard. Because that’s, that’s where it all came from in the first place, is sitting down with a blank page. And in process, putting what I can put on that page, so you know, am I going? Is it going to change me or anything like that? No, no, I don’t think anything really good. I’m pretty cast in stone at this point.

Rasta
Okay, so it’s exciting, but you’re still you in the end of the day.

Robert
And I’ll probably if I make a lot of money on I’ll probably donate it. A lot of it, like Planned Parenthood or something like that. That’s probably where a lot of my money will go. You know, animal rescues and Planned Parenthood. Definitely.

Rasta
Okay, so for you, even if you were to get money and such, you’d, you’d rather put that to something else rather than keep it first.

Robert
Yeah, I mean, I’m pretty happy. You know, like, I have everything I pretty much need and the things that I have that break, I can fix it. Of course, I’m, you know, I live in a small house with one bathroom and one day I would like two bathrooms. You know, but little things like that. Nothing huge. I don’t want to live in a big city. I don’t want to live in a big house. There’s a small town that my in laws live in the mountains that I might would would buy us a house in that small town and you know, they’re not expensive. They’re expensive to me right now. But they’re not expensive to a best selling author. That’s probably something I would do. And it’s got a little downtown, I can walk around and, you know, and, and that’s probably what I do have my money and like said, fuck the rest of it, you know, like this, this dogs gonna get put down nope, nope. Here, take the donation keep that dog, here’s the here’s a surgery for that dog, you know, women’s rights are being limited by the government. Here’s some money for Planned Parenthood, you know, like, do what you can do with that. I mean, that’s like, that’s, that’s what I would do with my my cash and also notoriety. Somebody has to stand up to finger and say, That’s messed up, don’t do that. Or that’s messed up, we should do that. So that’s what I would do with that kind of notoriety.

Rasta
Okay. So let’s imagine following this, this theme of best seller, because it’s it’s kind of hypothetical, but we imagine, you know, you find the success. And then let’s say Prophet’s Debt goes from being best seller to receiving a movie or TV series deal. Would you accept that deal? And if you did, do you have an idea of who you’d want to be cast in any of the roles?

Robert
Well, here’s the thing that I have a problem with, when it comes to the entertainment system, community, not system, but the entertainment community. It’s, it’s a lot of nepotism. You know, my, you know, somebody’s mom and dad are famous actors. So then they’re famous actors, is Mom and Dad’s, you know, publishing agents. So their publishing agent, you know, and things like that. And you got all these people, they’ve been all these paid movies. And they’re great actors. And some of them did come from nowhere. Some of them came from all of them a great, you know, regardless of where they came from a little bit of privilege, and they got to step up. But there are plenty of people who didn’t get set up and are great actors. I want those actors. I don’t want Brad Pitt. I don’t want you know, well known actors, not, not the not Brad Pitt, because he seems like a standard dude. But I don’t want those guys, I want somebody someone doesn’t know, I want an opportunity for the unknown person to get a chance to, to have it have a piece that they can work on. And not mention. I also want this is Southern Gothic Thriller Horror. I want real southern actors, I want real LGBT actors, I want real autistic actors. And I want it done here. I want it done in the south, I want it done in North Carolina, not on a studio set.

Rasta
Okay, so if you if you’re going to be doing this, you’d want a certain level of creative control to be able to say, hey, I want to have some authenticity, to the roles where the actors match with their roles or actresses matches their roles. And I wants to have this set in the setting that is the book is set.

Robert
That’s right. Nothing drives me. Nothing drives a Southerner as crazy. Like seeing someone portraying their region, or portraying them on screen. And seeing through the put on accent. It’s like chewing on aluminum foil and lit. It’s repulsive. And you know, you feel like why is this British guy playing someone from South Carolina? I can tell that that’s relaxing. Maybe that guy in Los Angeles can’t or New York? I can’t. And he’s supposed to be representing us. And I have a problem with that.

Rasta
You’d like your representation to be actual representatio.

Robert
That’s right. Just like I would like it. If you know, Naomi Pace is a gay woman. I want a woman who is a gay woman to play a gay woman. I don’t think that’s a lot to ask.

Rasta
I think there are definitely gay women who work in the business. So it shouldn’t be that much of a stretch to have that representation be accurate.

Robert
Correct.

Rasta
So with this with the concept of movie or TV series, are you would you be leaning towards preferring Prophet’s Debt to be a movie or a TV show? Which one do you think would be a better fit?

Robert
Well, obviously a TV show would be better, because this prestige television that they put out today is high quality, I mean, we really do live in a really amazing age of television, I grew up, it was like the 18, there’s some of the worst shit you’ve ever seen. You know, like, it was basically like soap operas, but all day on TV until the TV went to that screen where it’s like, we’ll be back at 6am. They, you know, but today, their level of creativity, the level of production value is outrageous. And there’s such detail in profits that I would want to TV series, you know, with the first season at least being a shows, because there’s a lot of mythology behind it that I haven’t talked about. And, you know, it would be great to flesh that pathology out. In an extended version of the novel analysis. Some degree movies are a thing of the past.

Robert
They’re so brief. I don’t feel like you really get your, your excitement, your money’s worth, in your storytelling worth, that you get out of an eight part TV series. Right. Okay, so definitely a TV series, preferably HBO, if they’re listening.

Rasta
HBO, there’s an offer right there.

Robert
There you go. You know, they made they’ve made some really great television. And, you know, how I wouldn’t have a problem being lined up with the same people that made sure detect them and being put on that same pedestal. I, I would love it. Absolutely. And really, in a lot of ways it it’s in the same kind of Southern Gothic horror thriller vein, so it would fit right there in a sphere. Okay, I won’t turn down Showtime or Netflix either.

Rasta
You’ll take it you’ll you’ll take it.

Robert
I’ll take it. I’m being facetious.

Rasta
So let’s imagine now that you’ve got the offer for, let’s say, HBO, and they’ve taken profits that turn into a TV show, it’s gone through this entire process, and you know, the the creative process and the release, and it’s going to the premiere. Would you go to the premiere? And who would you take with you? If you did?

Robert
Hell yes, I’m going to the premiere. And I’m, of course, I’m taking my wife who I’ve been with, for 13 going on 14 years, I’ve been married 12 years. And I would also take my friend Patrice, who is my OGest of OG fans, who read the first version of the book, The she’s maybe the second person who says My wife has read it, she read the rough draft that became so that was written in the third person and love that. So she’s my OGS OG fans. So she and my wife are going with me to the premiere.

Rasta
Awesome. It’s great to hear that. Following up with this and this concept of success and movie TV shows. With that comes with it a certain level of fame, right? You become more known with all these different ways of being exposed to people in these new ways your name getting out there. Would you like to be famous and well known perhaps, like, for example, and perhaps an extreme example, for example, Stephen King, where you lose your anonymity?

Robert
Well, one thing, I’m not a very anonymous person to begin with. I have a blog that, okay, so there was this white supremacist group, and they’re still kind of around in and fragments and pieces. And I knew someone who event who one day started becoming enamored with this group. And I wasn’t happy with that idea. So I started my own web page, and I wrote a couple of articles about this group. Those articles blew up. I’ve gotten 10s and 10s of 10s of 1000s of reads, I get read every day across the world. And eventually what happened is that the guy who is I’m not gonna mention names but he was kind of in charge was the mouthpiece for him. Got so put off by the he quit and unpublished a love of self published novels. I’ve gotten death threats from Neo Nazis for years now. They know who I am.

Robert
You know, guys like Richard Spencer, they know who I am those guys, you know, in that we’re in Charlottesville. A lot of these guys know who I am and I hate and assault them because good I’m glad to hit because I hated. Those are kept people that should hate you. They hate me for what I do and what I say they stand up to, because someone like me isn’t supposed to say those things and say those things about them and try to undermine them. So I’m not losing Andaman and minuty, because I’ve lost years ago, as far as what I like to be Stephen King. Yes, but not because of the money. But because it would multiply my ability to accomplish one of my favorite things, which is hissing off all the right people, homophobes and racist fucks. If I can piss them off, to the day that I die, then I’ll be happy. That would make me so happy every single day knowing that something I wrote, which I already have, but could be amplified to reach and and and just drive them absolutely crazy, while simultaneously giving hope to the people that they hate. I couldn’t think of a better life to live.

Rasta
That’s awesome. Having the desire to not only just make them angry, but make them angry for the right reasons where you’re being a positive force in the world, whereas they would want to be a negative one.

Robert
That’s right. Well, I’m also look what you have to understand about me. I’m from North Carolina, I am from I graduated from a very strict, hateful, all white Christian School. I’m named after a Confederate General, my middle name is E. Lee. My name is literally Robert E. Lee. And I know it’s grammatically incorrect. This is kind of ironic. But I grew up in being taught by my father, my grandfather, things that are horrible, and I won’t go into that was programmed to be a person that they wanted me to be to be their clone. And I rejected it. Like it was the fucking matrix. And I sort of to these people, these Neo Nazis and fascists, folks, I am not just someone they disagree with, but I’m an apostate and a traitor. And so it makes me doubly happy to be able to, you know, another way to drive them crazy. And to then look at kids who are from situations like mine, and come from backgrounds like mine, and say, You don’t have to buy that bullshit. You can love all people, you don’t have to hate, hate weighs you down, hate makes you miserable. Let it go, put it down, walk away, and people who think like that walk away from them in your life, too, because they’ve added no value to it. So I know I went on a rant, but now I’m a writer.

Rasta
Yeah, and I think this is a very important message, you know, to be able to express to people and be like, hey, just because the there are people in your life who try to instill hate in you and try to bring you to this hateful way of thinking and way of living doesn’t mean you have to, you don’t have to abide by those concepts and those biases and those terrible views of the world.

Robert
That’s right. In fact, you should fight against them.

Rasta
I think. I think they express that to people and you know, saying that they’re not alone in the struggle against those types of influences, and like their other people like them, is an important thing for people to know. Because sometimes people can feel very isolated in these situations, and feel like there’s not really a way out and be able to have people they could potentially reach out to or to feel connection with at the very least is important.

Robert
Well, I’ve been doing that a long time. Because I because of my psychiatric issues, because I no longer have a a you know, I’m not steadily out there in the world because I’m not particularly good at it. But when I was a school teacher, I was one of the first gay straight alliance faculty sponsors in the state of North Carolina and that was in the mid 2000s. So that’s also part of the reason that I started writing this book. Because what you just said, because someone needs they need to be able to go to someone, and talk to them and adult, or someone with experience. And, you know, that’s what I decided to do. And that’s also part of where this novel came from our mentoring high school kids whose parents rejected them. Right? Who they couldn’t be out at home. Right? So they could come to me, and that will never out you to your parents. You know, I will never say anything about this to your parents, they can fucking fire me for they almost did. But guess what they can’t. So, you know, now that I don’t have that. This is what I could think to do, you know, is to write this and how does it represent those kids I used to work with? And how does it get in the ear of someone who needs to hear it? Right. And so I’m so excited that this book can continue that mission, even though I’m not out and in the world, so to say as much as I used to be.

Rasta
Yeah, I think that is a wonderful message and goal with the Prophet’s Debt. And book, and I would like to thank you, Rob for talking with me today and sharing this and being on the writers triangle.

Robert
You got it.

Robert
And I’d like to thank all of our beautiful mosques for listening as well and tuning in. Be sure to buy Prophet’s Debt coming out July 5 2022. Rob, can you tell everybody where they can find you for social media links?

Robert
Oh, yes. I’m busy pissing people off on Twitter. And it’s at Robert Creekmore. So R O B E RT C R E E K M O R E. Just like the two words Creek and more put together. So at Robert Creekmore. Look me up.

Rasta
They have it and be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com to check out the transcripts will also have the links to all Rob’s Social media Rob, thank you again for talking with me today.

Robert
Thank you, Rasta.

Rasta
And take care and bye.