Author Interview: Colin Sephton – Timeslayers

R
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be. Welcome to the Writer’s Triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today, we are here with Colin Sephton, author of Timeslayers. Timeslayers is our May release. Colin, how’re you doing today?

C
I’m doing really well, thank you. I’m very excited, obviously, because this is my first novel. So equal parts kind of excitement, but obviously a little bit apprehensive. Because this is the first time any of my work is going to be out there.

R
Imagine with there being your first book and everything that there’s that kind of mixed feeling of, well, how are people going to receive it? Or versus also, holy hell, everybody’s going to actually be able to read my writing, right?

C
Yeah, true. It’s, I’m not, obviously, there’s some apprehension there. I’m not too worried. Because I did this book for me. Basically, it’s it was something I enjoyed doing over a number of years, really.

R
And so for you, the story is more of something where you had a passion for the story that and you had something that you wanted to write that you wrote?

C
I did, yeah, yeah, it was, it was a I’m a very creative person, I’m always writing or painting and drawing and things like that. And this was just another kind of string to my bow, if you like to go and kind of write about the kinds of things I enjoyed.

R
Yeah, that was quite nice. And I have seen some of your artwork, and I think it’s quite beautiful as well. I think that your writing as well has a lot of beauty in it at all. And to follow up a bit with, you know, you mentioned time series being your first book that you have coming out. What are you most looking forward to it the release? Are you planning to anything special?

C
Yeah, well, my my family and wider family as well. And that was just my, my son’s wife put the they’re all very excited for me. So we’ll perhaps have some kind of meal or party around our house. Books. Ultimately, what I’m really kind of looking forward to is, this might sound a bit crass, perhaps, but it’d be nice to see the book on a shelf somewhere, and go and have your photograph taken next to it.

R
Yeah, I think that’s always an awesome thing to be able to go, Hey, my writings here. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I definitely won’t be good. I definitely agree that, you know, seeing it’s different from knowing that it’s published versus actually seeing the physical book, right. Yeah, it is.

C
I mean, if if truth be told that, because I done this for me, you know, I did, at one point, kind of print out a copy for myself and bound it and made it look nice with the artwork and things. So yeah, so that’s what I’ve always kind of liked. But mainly because, as an artist, I’ve always really enjoyed the illustrated books by William Blake. And that was always kind of an ambition of mine. I’d love to have a book like that, basically.

R
Okay, so you actually took the, I guess, the original manuscript, and you had that panned out for yourself just to keep as a starting point for Timeslayers?

C
I did. Yeah. Yeah.

R
So how long ago did you start writing Timeslayers?

C
Well, this is gonna sound bizarre, but basically, it’s taken me 32 years, to just from starting the book to finishing it. Basically, basically, this was an idea I had when I was 18. And I took it so far. And I basically used it as a means to do my artwork, rather than copy other people’s fantasy art and things like that. And, of course, then, kind of life moves on, doesn’t it, you get married, have children and all the activities that that that brings, and all the joy and everything to kind of picked it up, again, on and off throughout that period, but picked it up again, seriously in about 2013 And did bits and pieces during the summer holidays, and then finished it in about 2017. And then my son said to me, well, obviously I’m Joshua. He said, Look, you’ve got this thing lying around. Why don’t you try and do something with it. So as a surprise for Christmas, he actually got me access to an editor who gave me some great tips, great pointers, went through a number of chapters, and actually said to me, You know what, this this has actually got some depth to it. It’s got it because of the way the world has been created. I think this actually has legs. So I took on board what she said and did some more work on it. And then eventually found cinnabar moth, basically.

R
Wow, that’s quite a journey of them from your first imaginings and creation of the world back when you’re 18 to then spending the time actually sitting down and writing that out to the surprise of getting an editor to to look at and actually get someone else’s confirmation that hey, this is something that people would love to read.

C
Yeah, it is. I mean, roundabout 2013 There was a lot of steampunk books on the market, which I love. Anything from Jules Verne onwards. And I started right steampunk novel, actually. And then thought, you know, I’ve got this all this other material, why don’t I make use of all of it? And I kind of merge the two books together, if you like. And obviously, that’s what most of the time from from there onwards. But yeah, getting that confirmation from someone else who was was very important for me.

R
That sounds awesome. And so I asked you a little bit, you know, it this is this was been a rather lengthy period of time, quite a bit of process went into what was the process like for you in terms of that original creation experience, and then the writing experience,

C
it was fun, I always always enjoyed English when I was at school, my teacher always said, You should do take it further. But I, what, what process perhaps is a bit different to most, I used it to kind of write what was in my head. And at times, I’ll have whole scenes that pop into my head in the middle of the night, sometimes things like that. And I like to write it down so I can get the description. And then I’ll sometimes use that to do my artwork. And other times, it’s, it’s the other way around, I’ll do some artwork and think that make make a good part of the book. And I’ll use the image to write the description if you like. So yeah, it’s it was fun all the way through, I just kind of kept me busy as a hobby, really, for all those years, it

R
Sounds like a really awesome experience to be able to have it feed kind of back and forth between the two mediums of art, right? Train your illustration and your writing process.

C
It is it’s because I’m a very visual person anyway, sometimes I will write a scene not knowing where on earth, I’m going to use it if indeed, I will use it. And then because I you know, I think what I’ve got is worthy, I’ll then try and fit it within within it within a novel.

R
So with that press, I want to ask you a little bit Were there times when perhaps you felt stuck when writing the story that then a piece of art that you did, leader helped you to unlock? Or kind of unravel? where to go next?

C
Yeah, definitely. There’s some characters in the book, who kind of they, their, their role is to convey the orders from the Omni soul who rules and created the cosmos to some of the other characters, so the characters like the stork and asleep, the watcher, and I wasn’t really sure what kind of character they would be. And yes, so I produced some artwork, and from there then to Okay, I understand what these these characters look like now.

R
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me with being able to, with the artwork, get a deeper sense of the characters in terms of the using the imagery to understand the depth of who they are, and represent that and kind of the, in a way, both of them are pulling each other along experience. That sounds really amazing.

C
I think they do. It’s kind of 5050 other times, I’ll just write, write what I think is in my head, and then take it from there. You know, there’s a whole books, parts of the book obviously not been illustrated, you know.

R
So I want to follow up without talking about the book and the narrative itself. The story revolves around a pair of primary characters who kind of come into this facing a cosmos that is far more complex than they ever understood at the start of their journey and their attempt to stop a power greater than their own and also find out more as they go through it. What was the original inspiration for this story?

C
I guess the inspiration came from well I’ve my love of all things cosmic if you like and always kind of say cosmic because I think there’s more to just the universe. You know, I think there’s other things out there. Like latest scientific thinking thinks there might be as well. But I guess firstly, inspiration can I found when I was really quite young, about 13, I got my first library card. And I’d go and spend hours and hours in the library, trying to understand what this universe was all about reading about the astronomy, the solar system, the planets. I’ve kind of got this inbuilt urge to understand things for myself, rather than just taking for granted see how far I can go in terms of Well, let’s question things and see what else up and find out. And part of that is well, where where do we actually come from? And why are we here. And I don’t think we’ll ever know that personally. But it’s, it’s nice to keep keep looking and try. But during that time in the library, I then moved on to other things like the unexplained. So you know, read as a kid at the time reading things about UFOs, and the Yeti and, and then you move on to it to the pyramids and start understanding ancient history and things like that. And I then developed a great love for the theology, particularly Greek, very much Norse mythology. So my inspiration guests came from all of that, especially when, as a young boy, I start to realize, oh, there’s this character called Thor in in Norse mythology. He’s also in the Marvel Comics, which he used to read at the time. So all of this kind of came together in my head as inspiration, I guess.

R
Okay, so draws from quite a few different places. And I think one of the places that you mentioned there, with, you know, your love of discovering new things, and astronomy and such, I think that is a very common thing for people who write in the science fiction world, where you have this innate curiosity and this desire to learn more and to kind of explore common, like modern, and even perhaps older views of how the world functions, and then that inspires you to look even further ahead. Yeah,

C
I think so. I mean, even down to who I am, and where I came from, you know, way back, I, before the age of computers, really, I’ve traced my family tree, realized that actually quite easy. My family, we’re both builders for 300 years, virtually, without exception, I think there’s about 12 people that worked. And, you know, that then gave me a sense of, Well, I know where I came from, I know the man, we’re all descended from actually in the local area where I live, and things like that. So, you know, it’s just that, that kind of urge to think, well, I where, where do we come from? Really? Why are we here? I guess.

R
And I think that you take a rather interesting approach to answering that and, and kind of as a fully Amsterdam, but looking at it and explaining it in terms of the world building of times layers, and I think that the water times layers itself, and the way that it functions, I don’t want to spoil anything, but I found the explanations and the conversations that are very interesting.

C
Okay, thank you.

R
And so your inspiration, you mentioned the love of learning new things, and discovering why we’re here and, you know, tackling these questions, but you also have these very grand and the mythical side that you mentioned, right with these entities that are larger than our capacity to understand the powers that are beyond our comprehension. Right? Yeah.

C
Yeah, it’s, I guess the, the main challenge there is to kind of make them believable, I guess, obviously, it’s a fantasy book. So you can kind of go anywhere with it, not you. But try to make characters have a bit more depth. So you can sympathize with them perhaps or not so and to to understand what what their troubles and problems are, you know, even the gods in this novel have limitations. I mean, that was something I kind of picked up from Norse mythology, some of the gods there actually die at some point as well that there are limitations. So, so I guess that’s the challenge and then trying to get them to fit into this whole world or Cosmos have created to try and make it believable. And individuals that you either love or hate I guess. But yeah, complete with their flaws and troubles. You know, as I say, even they have they have the limitations and problems.

R
I think you do a really great job of there are you know, several immortals within Timeslayers as well as our mortal sort of main characters and And the contrast between them and capturing that grand cosmic scale and also keeping the individuality of them. I think you do a wonderful job of it. Did you find it difficult to balance the existence of the two side by side through the story?

C
Guess so it’s not really thought about it in that kind of depth, I guess. But yeah. Because because you’ve you’ve got humans, obviously, on a human scale, you know, on this planet, and then you’re trying to contrast trust that with a much wider concept, you know, with in trying to make believable, the, you know, this cosmos is bigger, and there’s other sides to it. Yeah, not really sure. It’s not give it that much thought, I guess.

R
So for you, it wasn’t so much a challenge so much is just a natural thing that happened as you piece together narrative.

C
Yeah, I suppose. I mean, I spend all my days reading books about Consciousness in the Universe in the past. And so I’m always kind of drawing on more information as it as it arrives, if you like, you know, the latest scientific thinking and things. So to me, it just kind of naturally happens, I guess.

R
That’s really interesting thing to think about and talk about, because for me, right, as a reader who doesn’t necessarily have the same knowledge base that you do, I found your approaches, and some of the things that you mentioned, talked about to be really fascinating, and completely novel and new to me, whereas imagined for you, you know, you have the history of doing the research, and then also the history of having written the book itself. So these things might not feel quite as novel in that same sense, perhaps,

C
I mean, I’m on forever got notebooks on the go. I’m sitting here now behind me, I’ve got lots and lots of notebooks where it’s kind of research about universal consciousness and things like that. So I’m always kind of drawing on that information, try to guess trying to understand who we are again, I guess. So it’s so that I just make use of that. And some of the information I’ll use some I won’t. But to me, it’s just a natural kind of part of my day.

R
So following up on that, you know, the when we think about stories, we often think we think every story has a message. Right? And to me, I think the message is time series goes into what you’ve been talking about, about the value pursuing greater understanding and that pursuit of understanding where we come from understanding why we’re here, while also accepting the futility of ever reaching, you know, perfect knowledge. Is that the message you intended for the story?

C
Yeah, I think so. I mean, as humans, we always kind of focus on the small things as I call them, perhaps, but I believe that we’re actually part of this, this something that we don’t understand, and I don’t believe we live in the universe, I believe we are a part of it. You know, we are a natural part of this whole thing that somehow has come into being that we don’t understand as a human and that’s why when you you read the book, I don’t really refer to word universal at any point is, I think it’s mentioned once maybe twice it’s, it’s there’s something much bigger, but we are very, very tiny within it. I guess it gives that contrast.

R
I think you do a great job of having the characters feel like they are part of the narrative even for the moral characters the humans that we follow, even as they are you know, put into the grander scale they might seem small but that small piece still has significance and relevance.

C
Yes, I guess that comes from I’m quite a big believer in in again this scientific thinking that at the end of the day, we’re all listening but vibrating parcels of energy if you like, within a wider kind of vibrating parcel of energy, and therefore yet we are connected.

R
That was view of humanity in view of the world and how it functions and I guess the the universe or the cosmos that I had never actually heard or thought about before. that I found really fascinating when reading the book.

C
Okay. Oh, yeah. I read lots of Science Magazine. More information from but but as this gets further out, I’ll be exploring that in other areas basically.

R
And so I’ll ask you a little bit about your experience now, with timesavers. Now, you’ve talked about the research that you’ve done, you talked about the, the experience or writing it. But now that it’s done, now you’re on the other side. What’s your greatest takeaway from the experience as a writer?

C
Never give up really? And always be optimistic. Do this work? Because you enjoy it, basically. I mean, that’s, that’s what I did. You know, let’s, let’s face it, it’s quite difficult to find a literary agent, even let alone a publisher who’s willing to put your work out there. It’s it’s quite difficult. But my view is be optimistic and keep going. Prior to my connection with cinnabar moth, I think I’d contacted 12 or 13, literary agents and publishers. I had one, one answer back, which was very nice, actually, the guy said to, you know, it’s actually quite well, well written for a first novel. So that gave me a bit more hope. But you know, just don’t don’t give up. And the way I ended up here was just a chance conversation with Christopher on Instagram. And here we are now. So really pleased. But yeah, keep keep plugging away. Don’t give up.

R
I think that’s a great takeaway, and also a great message for other aspiring or currently, operating authors and writers who are who are in the industry. Right. And you mentioned earlier that your family might throw a party and everything you mentioned, I think your eldest son is the person who actually got you the editor. Would you say everything? If you we say everything in your family is pretty excited about the release of Timeslayers?

C
Yeah, they are. Even the wider family, you know, you know, nephews, nieces, people like that. They all think this is, you know, quite quite a big thing to be published and to see your name out there. So yeah, they’re all very excited. So I’ve got some funds. Anyhow, that’s in the immediate area, which is nice to know. Even though this isn’t quite their genre, perhaps. But yeah, they, they’re enjoying it for me, which is nice.

R
Sounds really awesome to have some much community around you to enjoy and to be share that excitement with.

C
Yeah, too. I mean, we’re quite a large family, I guess we always try and get together in the summer and things like that. So it’s nice.

R
So following up with that, how does it feel to know that your book will be listed in the US Library of Congress?

C
Also, it’s that’s, you know, I’ve kind of had two kind of main ambitions in life, one of which was to get a book published, and then to know it’s going to the library Congress. Yeah, I think that’s that’s a big thing. So I’m very, very pleased.

R
That that’s, that’s wonderful to hear. And I know that you mentioned earlier that your first explorations in the books really did, you mentioned came from exploring libraries, right?

C
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it’s a guess, world has changed, hasn’t it? And not sure. I’m not sure what libraries are like around the rest of the world here in the UK, they kind of struggled. But you know, I still enjoy you know, I have electronic books and things I do still enjoy. You know, having quite a large book collection here, in which to my my annoyance for my wife. But I can’t pass a bookshop without buying one, basically. But you know, I still enjoy holding the book in my hands and reading it.

R
I definitely feel the same way. There’s just a different experience with a book versus, you know, having the book to hold in your hands and feel those pages versus, say, a Kindle or reading an online as an e book.

C
Yeah, I think I think there is, it’s a book you can physically flick through. And sometimes I like to do that. That kind of to cheat or get ahead. But you know, sometimes it’s nice just to see what it is you’re purchased, as opposed to an electronic device where you’ve got to kind of scroll through, which is quite a lengthy process, I think. Right?

R
Yeah. I think one of my favorite things with physical books as well as the ability to go back really easily to certain places, or to even mark them for myself, and in a way that it’s still physically technically possible with the device, but it doesn’t feel the same as like putting a bookmark in. Let’s say, a favorite passage is on this page, right?

C
Yeah, no, I agree that this I enjoy that as well, like so the ability to go back and I’ll do my mark pages and things like that. Yeah, I enjoy it.

R
And so you’ve, you’ve come all this way. Now you’ve done the process of writing the book. Editing, getting a pub, you know to press. Now it’s about to be published. What do you hope happens next? What are your plans for following up after this?

C
Well, I guess the immediate will be, you know, will people enjoy my work? And Julia, what more I suppose it’s been, it’d be nice to, you know, I know from purchasing books that you love, or kind of like a miniseries, I’ll always kind of waiting for, you know, for the next 12 months to come around to get the next next chapter, the next book to understand where we go in. So that would be nice. If people who buy my book, enjoy it and want more.

R
So following up on that, are you hoping to have writing be a career? Or is it something that you’re hoping to just keep as a hobby? What are your feelings about writing?

C
Well, I’m, I’m, I’m kind of at a time in life where I’m looking to retire actually, actually, from what I currently do. I was an engineer for 24 years. And now I’m a teacher and I teach engineering. But uh, you know, I’m 58. I’m kind of looking forward to closing, I guess, difficult as the world moves on, and you do get older. But I’m looking to retire and think, yeah, writing is perhaps where I see me going next, because I don’t think I’ll ever fully retire. You know, I’m always kept busy. I’m always doing something. Like I say, I’m quite a creative person. So yeah, I would want to carry on writing.

R
Okay, so you’re looking to retire and then just have writing being something that you do in your retirements that you enjoy. And that’s more for you. And then you also happen to be publishing?

C
Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah. I think, I think sometimes, it’s certainly for me, I think if you write things for yourself, if you write the book you want to read, I think that that comes across and perhaps makes it more enjoyable sometimes for the reader because they can see you’re you’re really kind of into this this story, these characters, and you’re developing it as you go.

R
I definitely agree that there is a certain level of heart and spirit to a book that the author connected with when they are writing. Yes, for me as a reader.

C
Yeah, no, I think so. I mean, when I was a kid, I always used to read the Marvel Comics. And I remember seeing the apartment interview with Stan Lee. And he said, the way he got into comics was he wanted to write the book that he wanted to read. And I think that is important.

R
I definitely agree. And going back to times, there’s a bit Do you think that you’d want to see it on as a TV series or movie perhaps as a, as a comic, like you’ve mentioned? Well,

C
I guess that’d be the ultimate Yeah. It’d be really nice to see it on the big screen. My wife Sarah does Jeremy quite a lot, and says, you know, let me know when Steven Spielberg or George Lucas, he’s on the phone. So we’re a bit high. But yeah, that’d be awesome.

R
Do you think it would work better as a TV series or a movie with Timeslayers?

C
Probably as a movie I think probably as a movie it purely because it kind of, I don’t know, certain some TV series that you watch, I feel a certain length because they’ve kind of filled it out a little bit. Whereas, whereas you could have got to the answer quite a bit quicker. And I don’t think that always makes for enjoyable watching. So the big screen Yeah. A large action film I think would be good.

R
As a follow up on that, do you have any any actors or actresses in minds of people you’d want to cast for any of the roles any of the characters?

C
Yeah, I mean, this is perhaps sound awful, I don’t know. Not awful, but it’s, I’ve got obviously like the image in my head of the two main characters, which are Ignatius and indigo. And when I started writing about Ignatius, I’ve got this image in my head of kind of being obviously quite muscular and dashing and you know Shaka blond hair and all the rest of it. And then when I look around I think that we actually Chris Hemsworth who plays the Thor characters would would fit the bill perfectly and then for the other character Indigo I imagine her were quite fine features but obviously quite ruthless, she she’s good with a sword and things like that. And I think sometimes Kate Beckinsale would fit the bill Perfect.

R
Okay, so you’ve got those two in mind. And then as far as the other characters, you’re you don’t really have any one in particular.

C
No, I guess not. Not only that, we thought this having those kind of images in your head just kind of helped me They kind of add a bit more depth to those characters and to be able to describe who they are.

R
Excellent essence. And so following up on that, you know, let’s say you’re going into that process now someone’s picked it up and as wind, take it into the movie, put it on the big screen. What level of pedal control? Do you think you’d want over that process?

C
I guess that’s difficult, isn’t it? You know, I’d like the story to remain true. Particularly with with some of the bigger characters, boots, you know, if you were really approached to put this on the screen, you know, that’s just a bonus. Do you go along with it? Or do you? Or do you kind of question it say, well, actually, no, I want this to happen. So it’s a difficult question to answer. But yeah, I’d obviously want the story to remain.

R
So for years matter of as long as they keep the spirit of the story there, you’re okay with them doing a little bit of changes to make it fit with the medium? Yeah, I think so. I think so it makes a lot of sense to me. And so with that, let’s, let’s imagine now you know, you, you got the call, you took it, you went through the entire process of getting it all sorted. And now it’s actually going to be up on the big screen. Would you want to go to the mirror? And if you did, I imagine you take your wife with you. But would you maybe want to take some other people with you if you could?

C
Oh, yeah, definitely. So to my wife, Sarah, my two sons, Joshua, and George, and their partners, Katie and Georgia. Yeah, we I think we would all enjoy a nice red red carpet experience.

R
That sounds really fantastic and lovely. I know, from what you said earlier that your older son, you know, paid for the editing. So it sounds like your entire family is very supportive about, you know, the the writing process.

C
Yeah, they are. Family’s very important to me.

R
And so now, I want to ask you, when you imagine writing, you know, and getting all this work out there, and perhaps getting some recognition people connect you with your writing, that naturally comes with a little bit of fame, right? People getting to know about you and about your writing and everything. Would you like to be famous? And if you did, we’d like to be as famous as let’s say, Stephen King, where you potentially lost your anonymity when people recognize you on the street.

C
No particular particularly, I mean, I haven’t done this for fame. As I said, I wrote this book, for me, really, for my own enjoyment, I think that doesn’t say that’s important. You know, I am following up with the end of the two novels, one of which I’ve completed, called Soul, no sign called Shadow slayers. And I’m currently writing the third. So obviously, that if the novel does just become popular, and the novel’s follow, then you become a little bit more well known, but fame isn’t really particularly important to me.

R
Okay, so you’d prefer to have people enjoy a baby don’t really care for fame at all?

C
No, not really. Not really. I think it brings all the difficulties that perhaps I’ve only got one.

R
That’s totally fair, I think a lot of people prefer to keep their anonymity and, you know, keep a certain level of privacy for themselves.

C
Yeah, I mean, as I say, the family is important to me, and that that’s my corner. Important part of that part of my life, rather than being really well known. But you know, as I said earlier, it’s nice to see your name on the likes of Amazon and your your book there. So yeah, it’s very nice. But yeah, a big thing I want to pursue.

R
So you mentioned a little bit earlier that you are current Lee in the process with following up with other books. And this is, are they in the same world as timesavers.

C
They are, the second novel is Shadowslayers. And it picks up right after where the first novel finishes. And that’s, that develops the characters quite a lot more. And you start to understand how the experiences of the first book have affected you know, to take a mortal, and then put them fighting gods and Immortals. And the like, obviously, isn’t the norm for anybody in any kind of world, particularly not in this fantasy world. And so yeah, so it’s allowed me to grow those characters in more depth. That’s complete and she’s got now going through the editing process. And I’m currently writing my third book. That’s, if I’m really honest, is quite a bit more more difficult. And I found that found writing the second book easier than writing the first reality Bro, this this third book, I’ve got a good start. I know exactly what the finishes, but trying to get that get to that bit in between is the difficulty, I guess but I’m working on

R
That’s awesome to hear that, you know, if there are any people out there who do read your book and our fans that there’ll be more coming just there’s got to wait a little bit and there’ll be even more for them to enjoy with books in the same world.

C
Yeah, well, I hope so for them. It I’ll be honest, it’s been good for me because it has enabled me to develop the world further, you know, and introduce new characters and have new ideas and create create new images along the way. I

R
think that’s fantastic to hear. And it’s definitely exciting for the future as well. For now, though, Colin, I’d like to thank you for talking with me today about Timeslayers and for being on the Writer’s Triangle.

C
Thank you. You’re very welcome. It’s been really nice being here.

R
In for all of our beautiful mosques. Thank you for listening. Be sure to buy the time series coming out this upcoming Tuesday. Colin really quick. Can you tell all of our listeners where we can find you as far as social media goes?

C
Yeah, on social media on Instagram. If you look up Timeslayers and I also have another one called SephtonArt. And then I’ve also got a website if you if you look at ColinSephton.com Then you’ll find me there.

R
Wonderful. And for everybody listening Be sure to visit cinnabarmoth.com where you can check out the transcripts and we’ll also have the link to all of Colin’s social media. For now though, Colin, it’s been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you for talking with me.

C
Thank you. It’s really nice.

R
And for everybody listening. Bye bye