Author Interview: Dana Hammer and Fanny Fitzpatrick and the Brother Problem

R
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be. Welcome to the Writers Triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Dana Hammer, author of The Cannibals Guide to Fasting and My Best Friend Athena. Hello, Dana, how you doing today?

D
Great. How are you?

D
Yes, I’m very excited about it.

R
I’m doing well. Thanks for asking. So are you feeling excited about the upcoming release of Fanny Fitzpatrick and the Brother Problem, the sequel to My Best Friend Athena?

R
That’s wonderful to hear. We’re excited as well, as you know, the people working with you on it. And I wanted to just dive right into it. WithFanny Fitzpatrick and the Brother Problem, we continue to follow the life of Fanny Fitzpatrick and her friends Athena and Gemma and their experiences. What is your experience like writing a sequel? And did it feel easier to write My Best Friend Athena?

D
You know what, in some ways, it was just because I was already familiar with the characters. But in some ways, it was actually a lot more difficult. Because when you’re writing a sequel, you have to make sure that what you’re writing doesn’t contradict what you wrote in the first book. I remember at one point, I was like we did Fanny’s house have a second story or not, and you know, things like that. You have to go back in and check things.

R
Yeah, the fact checking to make sure it’s consistent. Yeah. And so, overall, what would you say the experience was? How is it different for you writing a sequel versus, you know, the first book or a standalone book?

D
It was, um, it was very fun. And I think that it kind of helped that I had a lot of people who had read the book and given me feedback and told me what they liked about it. And so I kind of had that to go off of I kind of know what worked for the audience. And so that was really helpful.

R
Okay, so you’ve had people that you’re in contact with who have, you know, read the first book, and were able to give you some pointers as to the types of things that your readers are enjoying?

D
Yeah, absolutely. My daughter has friends who read the book. And, you know, kids aren’t shy, they’ll tell you what they like.

R
So that’s very true. They’re quite honest. Yeah. And so I want to ask you about your personal feelings about it. Do you have a favorite character in the story?

D
Um, Gemma is really my favorite character all the time. I think that she gets a chance to show a different side of herself. In this book, we learn a little bit more about her preferences and tastes and interests. So she’s my favorite to write even though Fanny is my, you know, he’s my protagonist. I feel like Gemma is a little more fun.

R
So, for you, Gemma is the place where you can kind of explore things a bit more in a way that that you find enjoyable?

D
Yes, I think that she gives me a lot of opportunity for comedy just because of how her personality is, and how she’s quirky and a little dark.

R
Okay, so with that, what would you say the Gemma’s journey and growth is the one you’re most excited about between the two books, or is maybe a different character’s journey more exciting.

D
Honestly, I’m most excited about Daniel’s journey. And even though he’s not really a major, major character, he’s not one of my main friend group. I feel like in children’s books, and actually, in most literature, bullies are kind of treated as, like one dimensionally awful. And I really didn’t want to do that with my book. And in the second book, we’re gonna get to see Daniel, first of all deal with the aftermath of the trauma of being turned into a cockroach in the first book. And we’re gonna see him grow as a person as he tries to be different and better. And he embarks on his own interesting journey and I don’t want to give away spoilers, but he has a very a very dramatic character arc in the second book

R
Yeah, I definitely agree that his his experience was something that while it wasn’t the main focus was still interesting to see happen. And you touch on a point that you mentioned when it comes to bullies and you know, how they’re portrayed in media is usually this you know, very negative, there is nothing redeeming about them type of viewpoint. And in my restaurant, you know, you you cover and address, you know, issues like the moral issues of bullying, and things of how that’s handled and, and things of that nature. In Penny Fitzpatrick and the brother problem, you continue to follow that a bit. But you also seem to address other things like the dangers of excess and the challenges faced by families in the working class. And would you say that these are things that you picked to focus on and what inspired you To choose these topics to focus on.

D
Absolutely, that was a big, big thing that I wanted to tackle in this book, Fanny, her best friends are incredibly rich, like the vast kind of wealth that most of us can only dream about. And she comes from a regular working class family, they’re not rich, they have money problems. And, you know, Dion, the brother, Dionysus, he kind of represents everything that Fannie can’t have. He can be irresponsible, he can give into every whim, he can afford the best of everything. And he doesn’t really use his gifts for the betterment of anybody. And so I wanted her to stand in opposition to this character when other people are enabling him. And I wanted to get that side of her personality where we see Yeah, she is a working class girl, but in some ways, that makes her more qualified to deal with someone like Dion than her wealthy or friends.

R
That makes a lot of sense. And I do think that you did a great job kind of portraying that contrast between the characters, and also really digging into Fannie’s experience of the lessons that she learns from the first book and going into the second book about responsibility in one’s place and no one’s the weight of one’s choices and actions as they go about their life. as kind of a contrast to Dion’s almost lack of consequences in a way.

D
Right.

R
And so with that, I wanted to ask you, when it came to deciding the direction of the book, would you say that the expansion from the first book to the second book was something that was easy for you to plan out that you went into it with that already in mind as from the beginning, or is it something that evolved as you wrote it?

D
I went into it pretty much knowing where I wanted it to go. I knew I wanted to incorporate Deion or Dionysus. Just because, you know, he’s a fascinating character just in Greek mythology, like the god of wine and partying you I mean, right there. That’s a good story. And so I kind of knew how I wanted it to go, obviously, when you write things change, and you add things and delete things, but yeah, I think I went into it with a pretty solid grasp of where I wanted the characters to be at the end. And how I wanted to develop their characters a little.

R
Let makes a lot of sense to me. And I think that you did a wonderful job of training the characters as this and their evolutions and their growth and their changes as the story went on. Thank you. You mentioned earlier that you know, you’ve gotten feedback directly from people who have read your work, you know, the the friends of your daughter and such. And we know from the reaction of our PR lists on people on book Science Library thing, that you have a pretty nice following. How does it feel to have fans of your work?

D
It feels wonderful. Honestly, I love it to death when like, a little kid comes up to me and tells me that I book with their favorite book. One time I had a old woman come up to me and she said that she’d had polio when she was a little girl. And she said that just seeing the cover of my book with like a little girl with a wheelchair on the cover, she said that would have just made so much of a difference to her when she was little to see a book like that, because she’d felt so other than alone. And so just knowing that my books are out there and that people are enjoying them. That means the world to me.

R
That’s really amazing that you’re getting you know, people who are connecting with them. And also seeing the opportunities where the representation that you share in your books, is also connecting with people who perhaps didn’t have it when they’re younger, or perhaps are young now and are getting the opportunity to have that. So and so with, you know, my best friend Athena, and the candles guide to fasting both have excellent reviews on Goodreads and Amazon average about 4.5. And we’re looking at you know, you’ve shared that you’re aware of your fan base. And do you feel distant from from other readers? Or do you feel like you’ve gotten to know your fans and they connect with you and you connect with them?

D
A little column a little column B. I feel like some people of course, you know, they’ll reach out to me or people. I’ve talked to people directly who’ve read my books and they know and I like to talk to them about it and I think that’s so much fun. I like doing the book signings and events and things, but no, you know, I, I try not to read my reviews too much. But I do peek sometimes. And I’ll see people who I don’t know. And like, I don’t know what that person you know, liked or didn’t like about the book really. And so I guess I’m removed from the people who I’ve never met who’ve read it. But yeah.

R
That makes sense. You know, if you if you haven’t met them just talk with them, it’s kind of different than experience of just reading something they wrote on a review website. Right. Right. So I guess overall, would you say that your experience with interacting with fans has been positive?

D
Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, this has been a really great experience.

R
That’s wonderful to hear. And I’m sure that your fans will be excited to know that you’re enjoying it, and maybe more than might reach out to you. Who knows? Yeah, sure. And so with that, you know, you have these fans of my best friend Athena, who have read the book. And now you have the sequel to what are you most excited about your fans experiencing in the journey from Book One to book two?

D
I’m excited about them. Spending more time with these characters who I’ve, I’ve really tried to make likable and fun. And I’m excited for people who maybe are maybe younger readers who don’t know much about mythology to maybe learn a little bit more, because we have some new gods and goddesses coming in. So yeah, I’m just excited to see what people think of it.

R
So for you, it’s mostly just a matter of, you’re open to whatever they lay come away with it. from it. Just kind of curious to see what happens.

D
Yeah, I want to know what people think of it. And I really hope they enjoy it, obviously. But no, I love hearing comments and seeing what people how seeing how people react to it.

R
Makes a lot of sense. And I can say as someone who has read it personally, I enjoyed the blend of the like, there’s, there’s bits and balances of of humor, even as he tackles some pretty, like serious topics, you know, and have the children who are going through these experiences, learn and grow. And also dealing with some of the stubbornness that can happen in the conflicts that can happen between friends even, and how that still eventually resolves itself. Right?

D
Yeah, they’re problems that I think are relatable for most people, at least somewhat. You know, with her mom being pregnant, and the money troubles and, you know, people maybe influencing your friends and where you might not approve of, I think, I think those are pretty relatable problems that most kids will either experience or know someone who experiences them.

R
Yeah, for sure. So following up on that, do you have any easter eggs or surprises that you’ve included in Book Two, that you’re hoping that fans might find that you can maybe hint out for them?

D
Honestly, I wish that I was that kind of writer who was clever and put lots of little sneaky things in but no, it’s pretty much what you see is what you get. I mean, of course, it refers back to the first book, and there’ll be things that you’ll recognize from the first book, but no, nothing too sneaky. Okay, yeah.

R
I think, you know, they’re fun sometimes. But there’s also the danger if you’ve tried to put too much stuff in it can kind of detract from the story sometimes. That’s true. So for you personally, what what do you think fans will love most about where you take the story? Or what are you personally happiest about with how you wrote it?

D
I really like and I don’t want to give away a spoiler here. But I really liked the way things turn out for Fannie at the end of the book. I like that. Her her moral compass and her her ability to stick to her guns kind of pays off for her. And she’s rewarded in a way that I don’t think most people will see coming.

R
Yeah, I can agree. I definitely didn’t see that resolution happening. But I was like, you know that. That’s cool. And it does make sense thinking about it. But I would never come to that conclusion in advance. Yeah. So with you know, you mentioned earlier that you’re expanding some of the Greek pantheon that you’re dealing with, in in the book. And so I think you make some really creative choices with how you represent the different gods and goddesses. without spoilers. Could you maybe talk a bit about where you find the inspiration for these different takes on them?

D
Well, um, I’ve got a book of Greek mythology. And I kind of go through and find ones that I think would be interesting too, I feel like might be fun to bring into the world of a 11 year old girl. I have a few other ideas for Gods and Goddesses I’d like to incorporate in sequels. Basically, I just pick whatever I think would be most entertaining, and what I think I could work with at a middle grade level.

R
That makes a lot of sense. I hadn’t thought about the kind of the adjustment to make it also age appropriate when I was thinking about representation. Because some of the the lore and mythology is pretty hefty.

D
Yeah, a lot of it’s really messed up. And like, I can’t put that in a book for kids. So I try and keep it, you know, PG, but if I was doing an adult series, then that would be that would open up some different doors.

R
I think that makes a lot of sense by I think you do a wonderful job with, you know, for example, Dion or Dionysus and the representation of still keeping true to the heart of it, even if you don’t include, you know, the more messed up things that might

D
Right. Yeah, no, I edit out some of them or there’s no bacchanalia, you know.

R
Yeah, yeah. So how do you think your fans will react to the choices that you’ve made? And was that a heavy factor in writing the Fanny Fitzpatrick and the Brother Problem? I know, you mentioned that you took some feedback from, you know, people who’d read the first books.

D
I did, and I liked. I feel like people like the kind of voice that Fanny has. A few people told me that they could actually hear me reading it in their heads when they read the book. And, you know, I feel like, Yeah, I think that Fannie’s voice came out very well. In terms of how I wanted it to be. I hope that people think that I, you know, it’s hard being a 40 year old woman who is trying to write like an 11 year old girl. And so, you know, I think a lot of what I did was just really listen to kids that age and try and kind of capture their voice and what I feel like they sound like, so.

R
Yeah. So you’re hoping that people still when they read it, they do feel like, you know, the kids sound like kids as they’re reading?

D
That’s my hope. Yeah. Go ahead.

R
I personally, having read it, I did feel like they, they sounded like kids, I might be a little bit removed, because I haven’t really talked to any children in a while. But yeah, it did. It didn’t sound strange at all. I know. I’ve read some books that are like, you know, middle grade and such that I’m like, I don’t feel like a kid would talk this way.

D
Yeah. And these are smart kids. So I feel like I’m given a little bit of leeway there. Like, yeah, so but yeah.

R
So with, you know, it being a sequel instead of a standalone novel, did you feel any pressure to kind of live up to the success of My Best Friend Athena? And especially since you’re, you know, you’ve gotten such a reaction from fans? Did that add any pressure?

D
Um, yeah, it did. You know, you never want to write the second book and have people think, Oh, wow. So I wanted to make sure that it was entertaining that the tone was similar, and that people are still coming away from it, smiling and feeling like they just read a really good book. So yeah, it does add some pressure, but in a good way.

R
So you enjoyed the pressure wasn’t like something that stressed you out a lot?

D
No, it it made me feel good. And it gave me a goal. So I like that. I like it.

R
That’s awesome to hear. I think that some people do kind of get that pressure on them and then find it more difficult to write but hearing that you actually enjoy it, I think is a wonderful thing. And so when I interviewed you in the past, you had shared that you started, my best friend Athena have a desire to you know, write books that your daughter could read that would be more age appropriate. And here we are with you continuing that series and you know, writing a sequel, do you think you’ll continue to focus on stories in this genre for future books?

D
You know what I do? And it’s really surprising because I always considered myself first and foremost to be like, a very dark horror comedy writer, but I find that I really like being in the headspace of this very positive little girl. And I think it sort of brightens my mood. It gives me Get a better attitude. And I, I like how I feel when I write middle grade books. So I think I will stick with this. I’m still gonna be writing my other stuff. But I definitely feel like there’s a place in my writing for middle grade now.

R
Hey, that’s awesome to hear that you’ve in really enjoyed this process. And, you know, it’s kind of opened up a new aspect of your writing and writing for you that perhaps before was a little bit outside of what you thought you would do.

D
Yeah, it really has.

R
That’s wonderful to hear. And with, you know, in both my best friend Athena and Fanny Fitzpatrick and the Brother Problem, the series overall has this mixture with, you know, the gods and that fantastical nature. And then the more relatively normal life of Fanny Fitzpatrick. How did it feel to, you know, balance the two?

D
Well, I’ve always been drawn to stories like that, in general, like, you know, I like me, Neil Gaiman story I like Douglas Adams, I like when the strange and the supernatural or the extra natural is sort of brought into the mundane and the ordinary, I’ve always loved stuff like that. So that felt very natural to me to combine those two.

R
That makes a lot of sense. And I do feel like you do a wonderful job blending them together to where, while there are these, you know, larger than life gods and deities and goddesses involved, it doesn’t overshadow the experiences and the more quote, unquote, normal life that any Fitzpatrick has and the the troubles that she faces in her own life and overcomes as she faces those challenges.

D
But I’m glad.

R
And so, you know, you’ve now you’ve written three books that are two of them are published when it was about to be published. And that’s quite a bit of experience. Do you feel like you’ve grown as an author? And if so, how?

D
Will I hope I have? Yeah, no, of course, I’ve grown I think that I, the more I write, the better I get at it. I get better at editing myself, I get better at staying on track. When I look at, you know, like short stories, or even little things that I wrote, you know, 510 years ago, I kind of cringe. I’m like, oh, no, I could have done that. I could do that. So much better now. And, you know, maybe, maybe at some point, I’ll stop growing as a writer, but I hope not. I hope I’m always improving.

R
Yeah, I think that we all hope to continue moving forward. And in having that positive growth. I think that I personally feel like you’ve been a good writer, since I’ve been reading your work. That’s a little bit hard for me to say, oh, yeah, I can tell you. I think you’ve been doing a wonderful job. Thank you. But with, you know, you now have your third book coming out, and you feel like you’re growing. That’s, or at least you hope you’re growing? Do you feel like you’ve solidified your identity as an author as well, like, when you look at your body of work so far? How does it feel?

D
I feel really proud of the three books that that you guys have published for me and I, I feel very grateful to have had the opportunity to be published. And I really, really hope that I don’t know that I would say that my career is solidified. Because I feel like there’s still other things I’d like to try to write things that I might end, you know, adult horror, comedy and children’s fantasy are very different. So it’s hard to brand that you know what I mean? And you guys have been great, like allowing me to explore that other side of my writing. But I think it is hard to say, you know, you know, it’s not like Stephen King. He’s a horror writer, Danielle Steel, she’s a romance writer, I feel like I’m kind of dipping my toe into two different worlds. But it’s good. I’m happy about it. And I’m really glad that I’ve been able to do both.

R
So you’re, you’re enjoying the exploration you’ve done so far. But you also you mentioned that you’re maybe looking at pursuing some other genres and doing some more experimentation with your writing in the future. And so, okay, so looking ahead, do you have a thing that you’re kind of solidly planning on what you’re going to be doing next? I know that you mentioned earlier, future books in the fanny Fitzpatrick world, but other other ideas and things that you’re like, I definitely want to pursue this. Yeah.

D
So I actually did write a third Fannie Fitzpatrick book. We’ll see what you guys think of that one. But that one is Fannie is sort of recruited by sirens. And sirens want to train her to be a siren with them. And it turns out that they’ve got some interesting things going on on their siren Island. And then I’m also I just started writing a, I don’t know how it’s going to turn out. But I started writing a sci fi, middle grade or young adult book about alien evangelists who show up on Earth and try and convert us all to their alien religion. It’s a little more serious than my fantasy stuff. It doesn’t have that lighthearted feel to it, but I’m experimenting and seeing how it goes.

R
Just from the premises. Those sound very interesting already. And I’m curious to know what that will be like with the particularly the alien evangelists.

D
Yeah. They’re very quirky.

R
I can imagine they sound quite different from I imagined different way in a way the like the aliens, of course, they are typing.

D
Right, right. They’re trying to fit in, because they want us to convert to their religion, but you know that they’re, they’re still aliens. It’s a work in progress.

R
It definitely sounds like an interesting premise. And I’d love to know more know more about it as it progresses. But putting that aside for now, I’m really excited for the release of any Fitzpatrick and brother POM. I know your fans are too. And so I’d like to thank you for being on and talking with everybody today and beyond the writers triangle. So thank you for having me. And to all of our beautiful masuleh Thank you for listening. And be sure to buy Fanny Fitzpatrick and the brother Paul coming out February 7. And Dana, can you let everybody know where we can find you social media, all that? Sure.

D
I am on Facebook at the Dana Hammer Author Page. And you can also find me on Tik Tok. I’m not prolific on there, but I do have a few videos you can check out. Yeah.

R
Wonderful. And for everybody listening, be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com, where you can check out the transcripts, as well as where we’ll have the link to all of Dana’s social media. And once again, Dana, it’s been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you for coming on.

D
Thanks for having me.

R
And to everybody listening for now. Bye bye