Episode 8: Vashelle Author Interview

October 16, 2021

Hello Cinnabar Moths or any other kind of moth you’d like to be. Welcome to The Writers Triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with our author in residence, Vashelle, for Cinnabar Moth Collections. Vashelle, how are you doing today?

I’m doing well, thank you for having me.

It’s a pleasure having you on. And so today, we’re going to be talking about diversity in writing. And I was wondering, when did you first learn about the concept of diversity? And what does that term mean to you?

So I learned about diversity pretty early in my life. I was an army brat, my dad joined the army when I was like, two. So pretty much my whole upbringing, I lived in the military community, which is extremely diverse. So I’ve always been aware, and appreciative, appreciative of my diverse upbringing. And, you know, I feel like it’s really enriched my life, you know, whether it was through like literature, or like food and music, customs, you know, everything that comes with living around a diverse group of people. So it means a lot to me, and I feel, you know, I feel kind of sorry, for people who are resistant to diverse settings or kind of like, you know, this idea that, you know – I’m – and I’m only speaking as an American here. But like, you know, our country being diverse, I feel people – I feel bad for people who are resistant to that, because I think they’re selling themselves short of a really rich life experience. So

So for you, the concept of diversity is a matter of different cultures coming together and commingling. Would we say that’s accurate?

Yes. And I would even venture to say, like, celebrating. Like, when I think about, you know, my upbringing, and the military community, I think we do tend to, because we all come from different areas of the United States. And we come from, like, different backgrounds. But when we come together, like under this, you know, umbrella of the military community, we do kind of tend to gravitate toward like, our own groups, right? Like, we find people who kind of look like us, or come, you know, come from where we came from, but at the same time we celebrate everyone else. If that makes any sense.

Yeah, it makes sense. It’s appreciating the cultures, the other cultures that are different from yours, while still retaining your cultural identity.

Exactly. Yep. Couldn’t have said it better.

So, you, you do writing as one of our – as the author and residence for Cinnabar Moth Literary Collections, and with your writing, do you consider yourself to be a part of diversity in writing? And if so, how do you feel that you’re contributing to that diversity?

Um, I think for sure, I’m part of diversity and writing, but I wouldn’t say I necessarily, like set out to do that. But I think I am just by default, right? So, you know, as a Mexican American, as a woman, as an army, brat, mom, survivor, you know, person in a multicultural marriage. I’m definitely not writing from the, you know, I guess, like the mainstream in publishing, which I guess would be white cis male perspective, you know. So, you know, I think, again, I do contribute to diversity in writing, just by default, but I definitely do not set out to do it per se. But I know that I do. You know.

It’s one of those things where it’s, it’s not necessarily an active decision, okay, I’m going to write about diversity in this way. So much as I’m going to write, and I am diverse, therefore, I’m contributing to diversity in writing.

Exactly. And I kind of like that, this idea, right. Like in in my stories. I think if you’re reading them, you would – you almost can’t even really tell like, what the person’s background is and then out of nowhere, there will be like, you know, a colloquial Spanish word specific to the American Southwest, Mexican American, you know what I mean? And it’s like, oh, okay, this is not, maybe the person I thought it was. I guess like, depending on who the reader is and what they would, you know, suspect the character is up front. But I kind of like the idea that I that it snuck in there.

So you like your diversity to be a little bit more low key within the writing rather than being, oh, yeah, this person, just let’s stamp them right now with their from this culture, Right? Like that.

Right. Yeah.

And kind of just something that people discover as they go through the story and learn more about the character, and a bit more of a less direct fashion.

Right.

Okay. And so, going from the writers side of it, there’s two kind of sides to the overall writing industry, right? There’s the authors and the writers. And then there’s the publishers and editors of, you know, literary magazines, books and such, on the publishing side of things. So what do you think that the publishers and editors, and all those people on the publishing side of things can do to increase diversity in publishing?

So I think if it’s a genuine desire for them, because I think maybe there’s some publishers who don’t have a desire for that, and I think they shouldn’t force it or feel like they need to be forced to be diverse. Because I think it’ll – I think that that might just be a disaster. Someone who has no genuine interest in diversity trying to do that, I think, just, I don’t know, I could just imagine something going awry. You know, with their authors or, you know, but if it’s a genuine desire for them, then, you know, I would say, then not to be shy about it. You know, put out calls for submissions directed at underrepresented groups or be more vocal about a need for diversity. And I think, you know, the more – the more publishers that do that, I think it’ll be come the norm, you know, and it’ll just inspire other publishers to do the same. And I think like, you know, once, once they do that, and they start seeing what I guess they’re calling Own Voices stories are like and how rich they are. I think that, you know, they’d be pleasantly surprised.

So for those publishers and editors who are interested in doing this is the first step is just saying they’re interested.

Right. Yeah.

That makes sense. Something that I was raised up hearing was, is a closed mouth don’t – doesn’t get fed.

Yep. That is a timeless phrase, right?

Yeah. And so we have this focus on diversity that we talked about, as – in Cinnabar Moth, we talked about diversity, you talk about diversity. And so there’s this focus on diversity, and the feel that, and we have the feeling that it raises all voices, because the mainstream point of view is kind of already known. It’s already out there. There’s a lot of content from the mainstream already. And so that’s our view as publisher, but what would you say to those who would argue against diversity and claim that by focusing on it, we’re, in a sense silencing or diminishing the mainstream voices or mainstream points of view?

Yeah, I think this idea of, of mainstream voices being silenced is, is pretty much an oxymoron in and of itself. Because, you know, again, you know, coming up from like, the American perspective, the current mainstream has – has been the same mainstream as it’s always been, you know. And it’s not leaving our consciousness anytime soon. So I think there’s plenty of room for other voices to be heard. And for those that are resistant to diversity, again, I think they’re only hurting themselves in the long run, because I think more and more publishers are waking up to the fact that, you know, diverse writers and diverse stories are – are rich and worthwhile. And I think that, you know, publishers would only be hurting themselves in the long run to be resistant to that change.

Yeah, I agree. There’s so many talented writers out there in the world who come from a diverse set of backgrounds and diverse set of cultures. And if you limit yourself only to the mainstream, there’s going to be many talented writers such as yourself who write wonderful stories that just wouldn’t get seen that publishers didn’t look around and weren’t open.

Right.

And I think that would that would be a shame if that happened. And fortunately, you know, we have the opportunity to as Cinnabar Moth to reach out to authors like you, and we’re helping with this. And we’ve also collaborated with other presses that are doing the same. And we are hopeful that that increases. And yeah, there’s, there’s so much out there in the world.

Yeah, you’re right. And you guys have been great about that. And I’m – I’m very, fortunate to have come across you guys. And, you know, seeing what you’re putting out there and the types of writers and and people that you support.

Well, We’re glad that you feel that way about – that warms my heart to know that you are happy to be with us. It is one of our goals is to make sure all of our authors are happy working with us. And if we’re succeeding, that’s, that’s great.

Yep.

And so let’s get back into talking about your writing specifically for a bit. In your writing, you touch quite a bit on female pain and loss. What drives that focus for you in talking about that topics – those topics specifically?

Um, so I’ve always been in touch with, like, my femininity and the power that it holds, I guess as well as its vulnerabilities, right? So I think especially in love and in motherhood, you know, it’s just like such a vulnerable thing for for females, right. So I love to examine, like, the traditional gender roles in relation to one another, from the female perspective, whether it’s, like daughter to father, wife to husband, mother to son. And within those relationships, I’m very interested in how we grieve losses and betrayals. So like grief, betrayal, and I would say even mental health issues were definitely a family theme as I was growing up, so I think that’s what drives my – my interest in those subjects. And they’re usually a theme in my writing, for sure.

So you draw a bit from personal experience as part of

Yes, yes.

And then also a desire to, I think that there’s also, in some ways a lack of discussion about some of these gender roles from the female perspective in current publishing.

Yes, I agree.

So I do think that – that writing about that’s important. And then also, to dive a bit more into the topic of talking about the gender roles and such, do you actively set to turn them on their heads? Or what is your goal? Is it just to explore them from the female perspective as they are or to look at how they might change?

I would say a little bit of both. You know, I haven’t really thought about. I mean, I like to examine them as they are, right. And what I guess like society’s expectations would be for like, a woman’s, reaction to loss or a woman’s reaction to be trail. But I do like to kind of turn it on its head and focus a little bit more, especially when I write horror stories. Which is like, mostly what I write. You know, I like to explore the darker side of the feminine psyche. And I guess, in terms of like, what we know as gender traditionally, make them a little more masculine, I guess you could say.

Okay.

Or what, you know, what – what we perceive as masculine in the traditional sense.

Yeah, I think modern views are evolving and growing when it comes to discussions about gender, masculinity, femininity and such. And I think that writing such stories helps to contribute to that discussion.

Yeah, and like, going back to one of the earlier questions about, you know, diversity and stuff. You know, I grew up with a lot of diversity in terms of, you know, race and culture and everything. But you know, I grew up in the 80s and 90s. And there was still a lot to be learned about, like gender, you know, and sexuality, and, you know, all kinds of, you know, how the 80s and 90s were. So, you know, even, you know, me, I’m still learning, and I’m, and I think that’s why I like to write about those topics so much, because I’m still kind of exploring what those gender roles mean. Because growing up, it was not something that we really talked about, or, you know, it was just sort of like the set of expectations on what – what you should be as a woman. And, you know, it’s nice to kind of explore that through writing. And kind of, like, I guess, fight back on those expectations with words.

So you, you’ve experienced a lot in your life that has led to you becoming a fiction writer and writing about the topics that you talk about. What would you say is some that might surprise our listeners or will surprise people about your journey into becoming a fiction author and writer?

That I’m much more comfortable with nonfiction. I’ve always liked – I’ve always written poems that you know cut – to kind of like, process different emotions ever since I was a kid. I shared recently on Twitter, this poem, I wrote my dad, because, you know, again, he was in the army, and he was he was gone a lot. So when I was five, I sent him a letter. And I think he was in Korea, stationed in in South Korea at the time, but I wrote him a letter, and I included a poem. And this is me at five years old, like basically telling him that it felt like I didn’t have a dad. And now that I look at it, I’m like, that was pretty harsh, but

Kids are very honest, their feelings and can be very direct.

But um, you know, I’ve always like written directly from my own life, like, whether it was writing personal essays, or, you know, I even have written nonfiction articles that have been published or anything that requires research. That’s usually what I’m more comfortable with. But once I tried my hand at fiction, it was like, what? I get to tell, like, I get to tell truth. But also stretch the truth. And be as outlandish if I want. Like, this is really neat. So it kind of reminds me of lucid dreaming. I don’t – have you – do you know how to lucid dream?

I’ve never personally experienced it. But I do know a few things about it. If you’d like to go into it and explain it a bit for our listeners, though, I think that might help them to have some context.

Yeah, so like, I think sometimes people mix up lucid dreaming with vivid dreaming. So like, vivid dreaming, right is where, like, everything is clear. And, and, you know, like, you feel the senses. And you know, you remember your dream. And, you know, you feel all the emotions, that’s a vivid dream. But a lucid dream is like where you’re – you – you’re conscious in your dream that you’re dreaming. So, like, let’s say something bad is about to happen in your dream and you – you become conscious of the fact that you’re only dreaming. Then you get to like, manipulate your dream, to save yourself or whatever the scenario is. So I kind of feel like fiction is, in a way a lucid dream, because you get to design and manipulate an entire world. And I think that – I mean, I’m just so excited about it, because it’s like, you know, I’ve – it’s opened up this whole world to me where you, you get to tell truths. But you also get to, like, stretch the truth and, and be super, you know, outlandish with it. So I love it.

So you initially you started from nonfiction, and that’s your core kind of foundation for writing. But you really enjoyed the process of exploring the kind of limitless nature of fiction.

Yeah, absolutely.

I remember for me with writing as well – because I have I’ve written a bit – is nonfiction…. It was very formula – formatted. And it’s very, you know, strict because it’s nonfiction right? There’s only so much you can say before it breaks away from what it’s supposed to be.

Right.

And whereas with fiction is sort of like, the opposite, where if you stay too much in the lines, it kind of loses some of its definition, in a way, strangely enough.

Right. Mmhmm.

And so, I totally understand that feeling of being encouraged to play around with things a bit more and explore your own mind.

Yeah. And, and I mean, that – that’s what’s exciting, because, you know, like, when I used to write personal essays, for example, you know, I would hear other writers or I would go to writing workshops, or read books about personal essays. And they would say, like, you can stretch the truth, a little an essay, and in my head, I’m like, no, an essay’s – like you’re supposed to tell the truth.

Yeah.

So I kind of like, limit myself in that way. Like I, for some reason, if I knew it was an essay, and it’s supposed to be nonfiction, I couldn’t like, make it a little more interesting or a little more colorful. Just to make this story sound better. I just couldn’t do it. I’m like, no, that’s lying.

This is nonfiction. So it’s got to be true, dang it.

Yeah.

And now with fiction, you’re able to do that, where it’s like, I could I could make this more interesting. How about if I just do it a little bit like this? Oh, that’s exciting.

And even that, even then, even even when I know, it’s fiction, I still have to, like, convince myself it’s okay. My husband teases me all the time. He’s always like, you’re too honest.

Hey, honesty is not a bad thing.

It’s not that’s what I say.

The trick is, you know, being honest, while also being able to explore these fantastical concepts that are not true to reality, but are still true to the world that you create.

Right. Yeah.

A thing I struggled with that, when I was writing, as well is, I have created the world. So the world has its own rules now that I have to keep to or else things start falling apart. And now there’s this own – there is this alternative truth. That’s not reality. That is the reality for the world I’ve created.

Right.

And exploring that and exploring how far I can stretch the rules that I myself created for.

Right, because it’s like, our it’s only our own roles.

But at the same time, I don’t want to break them.

Yeah. You got to stay true to yourself.

Yeah. And so with publishing as the kind of second step after writing a book, the next step is finding a place to publish or deciding to self publish, and then going through that process. Have you found the world of publishing to be welcoming to the points of view and the voice that you’re putting out there?

So far? Yes. You know, thanks to you know, publishers like you, Cinnabar Moth, and I’m, I’m very lucky to because, you know, again, I mostly write horror. And the horror community is, is great. I mean, they’re super welcoming, and, and very diverse. And, even, like, cuz I, to be honest, I just started submitting stories for, for consideration in December. And, you know, so far I’ve gotten, like, five – five acceptances and two rejections, I think, and even even the rejections were, like, very, you know, they give you feedback. And they encourage, they encourage you to, you know, keep writing and, you know. There was one in particular where I submitted a story, you know, got the, the rejection and the editor like, he still is like, you know, if I tweet something exciting about like, a story getting accepted, you know, he’s very like, oh, good for you, I knew that story would find a home. So it’s been like, it’s been great just to see how welcoming and how encouraged – encouraging the the publishing community has been so far.

It’s awesome that you’ve entered in had a warm welcome into the into the writing community and by the horror community in general. I have heard that the horror community tends to be somewhat more diverse and open than potentially other genre communities.

Right.

But I do think it’s wonderful. And with the process of, you know, writing the novel, or writing the stories, sorry. And working with publishing and all that. Do you have any perhaps advice or ideas, you might suggestions you might give to fellow authors who are not in the mainstream, and want to write about topics or points of views that aren’t part of the mainstream?

I think that’s a hard one. Because, I mean, I guess it would depend on what the writer’s goal is. I think, if their goal is to like become, you know, a New York Times bestseller, and they’re not part of the mainstream, and they don’t write, you know, mainstream things, I think it would be very hard for them. But I think if like, the goal is to like, you know, self publish, or, you know, maybe just, like, get some short stories out there. Or, you know, whatever their goal is, I would just tell them to keep writing from their point of view, and you know, about things that are interesting to them. Because when you veer from that, and you’re trying to fit a mold, you’re – you’re just not going to sound authentic anyhow, you know, and it’s not going to be the best work that you can do. So that’s what I would say, but that’s a tough one, again, is I think it depends on what their goal is. And, you know, if they’re not a mainstream voice, and they’re not writing, like, from a mainstream perspective, I don’t know. I feel like someone would need to have an honest, like, talk with them about, you know, their expectations, maybe.

Don’t expect mainstream popularity if you’re not part of the mainstream type of thing,

Right. Yeah.

Let’s dive into that a little bit more Did you have experience where you had the desire to go into the mainstream, but your writing didn’t suitor or anything of that nature, or what was your initial process with exploring the mainstream diversity, that whole kind of concept when it came to writing and your expectations going into it?

Um, I would say I just didn’t really have many expectations. And, you know, my goal, as a writer, I guess, is just pretty much for self fulfillment at this point. So I haven’t had any interest in like, becoming part of the mainstream, I just really want to, like, be able to like write stories, for my own self fulfillment, and hopefully get some published, just so that, you know, other people can read them, or people from my community can, you know, read stories that are familiar to them. But the mainstream really has never really crossed my mind. So I don’t think about it that much. To be honest.

So your goals as a writer is mostly a matter of letting your voice be heard as kind of the primary thing?

Right. Mmhmm.

And would you – do you have an additional goal of it becoming a career path for you? Or is it purely you’re just going to write and whatever comes comes, you just want your stories to be out there for people to see.

Yep, that’s exactly it. I have, I have a full time job that I’m very passionate about. I’m lucky in that sense. And I also have three kids whose ages cover a lot of ground, and I have other hobbies and such so – and I like to relax way too much to like, be stressing myself out unnecessarily. So it’s, it’s very much of self-fulfillment thing and just also just, you know, again, having stories out there that maybe someone like me would recognize or you know, there’s maybe a subject that I touch on that that will touch them as well. But you know, even though it’s just for self fulfillment, mostly I still give, give writing and everything that comes with it my best shot. That’s just like how I am with everything, right. I don’t, I don’t like just do it just to do it. I like to do my best no matter what. I mean, it might not be the best to someone else. But you know, as long as I put in, you know, the effort and put in, you know, my heart into what I’m doing then, you know, I’m pleased with what I’ve done,

Right. Yeah, I think that’s important is, if you’re writing and you’re not pleased with your work, that makes it so much harder to keep writing. But if you’re satisfied with it, then it’s like, okay, I can I can keep going with this because I’m doing something that’s authentic to me, that feels right. And that’s really, really important for keeping, as you mentioned, before, a more genuine voice to the writing itself, as well as just being able to really devote yourself to it.

Right. So I could say, even like, you know, this summer, I had set myself like some, some writing goals. And I think my goals were a little too lofty for everything I had going on, like, in my, in my work, and in my personal life, and I, you know, the moment that I make it, like stressful for myself, that’s when I start losing a little bit of steam, you know. So I think it’s important to, to just kind of like gauge where you’re at and honor, wherever it is that you’re at with writing.

Yeah, it’s wonderful that you’ve done that self exploration, and, you know, hey, this is where my writing is at for me. And I’m doing this because it’s what I’m happy and comfortable with.

Right.

And to those who are listening, I think that that’s a pretty good baseline, right is find your comfort level of writing and pursue along that rather than trying to force yourself into some into, you know, writing something that you’re not comfortable with, or forcing yourself outside of the bounds of what’s genuine and true to you.

Right, and I think it’s easy to I think, especially on Twitter, if you’re following a bunch of writers, it could – it’s easy to, you know, fall into this like, mentality where, you know, you see, oh, this person finished, you know, three stories this month, and I’ve only, like finished 1/4 one story. And kind of feel down about like, your speed or, you know, the free time that you have to commit to it. So I think just, you know, you have to learn to have some sort of, like, contentment with where you are again, so.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And I do think that feeds into also the talk about diversity, where, if you want to write diverse stories, you should do that. And if it’s not true to you, you don’t have to, either, right. And having that kind of balance and knowing that what about yourself. And so with when talking about understanding and talking about understanding ourselves there’s lso a certain need for, or desire to be understood by the people around us. And do you feel that publishing, in general understands the level of diversity within your community, and within your cultural background?

You know, I can’t even tell you to be honest. I may know about like, three Mexican American authors at the top of my head. So, you know, I don’t really have much, like context with that right to gauge, like, what publishing understands about, you know, my culture, or my community. Just because I don’t see much of it out there. And I’d love for our stories to become, you know, more accessible so people can understand who we are and how diverse we are. Because I think, you know, there are certain narratives about that out there about who we are as a people. And, you know, I think it’s, it could be unfortunate because we’re so – such a part of the American fabric. Yeah, I feel not enough is known about our lives and our history here. And so, you know, I wish there were more stories out there about us and by us.

So, it’s hard to get a grasp of how well understood your community is when there’s not stories out there to gauge that.

Right.

And with that, do you… do you have something that you wish you could change, if you could, for example, through your writing are through your efforts, perhaps to get a message out there to the publishing community or to the writing community, to have them hear and understand it or perhaps even causing change to happen? Do you have a message you’d like to express or a change that you’d like to be part of the impact for?

Yes, I would say, I would tell them to trust us to tell our own stories. And by us, you know, I mean people of color, or the LGBTQIA+ community or people with disabilities. You know, you can’t tell an author of a certain background, that their character of that background is not authentic enough. You know, like, that’s not supporting Own Voices, and if you truly want to support diversity in publishing, you have to trust us, you know, to tell our stories. And they might not look like what you think they are, or, you know, they the stories might not look like, what you think, you know, this community might be. It might be a little different, but you have to trust that that’s how diverse that community is.

I think that’s a wonderful message. And I do agree that oftentimes, there’s a lot of assumptions they get placed onto different groups, different backgrounds, where you, if you fall into those assumptions end up really pigeonholing a whole community. And no community is a monolith. Right?

Right.

There’s so much depth and so much bredth of culture and different experiences and lived experiences across different people that you could have people who live literally down the street from each other and have completely different lives and completely different stories.

Yep, and you have to trust, you know, people who write people who want to tell stories, you have to trust them.

I think that’s a wonderful message to employees, you know, trust people to tell their stories.

Yep.

And so, on that, I’d like to thank you, Vashelle, our author in residence, for talking with me today and being on the writers triangle.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

And thank you to all of our beautiful moths for listening. Vashelle, can you tell us where to find you on social media website links, go.

Sure. So I’m pretty much like on every platform, including tiktok @Vashelle_writes. And I also have a website, it’s www.vashellewrites.com.

Okay. And so be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com or cinnabarmothliterarycollections.com and check out the transcripts. And we will also have all of Vashelle’s social media links there available to you. And Vashelle, thank you for again for coming on today and talking with me. I hope that you have a wonderful evening.

You too. Thank you again.

And goodbye.