Episode 16: Joe Haward Interview

R
Hello cinnabar moth so any kind of math you’d like to be welcome to the writers triangle cinnabar moth podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Joe Haward the winner of the 2021 Cinnabar Moth Collections prize for short storytelling. Joe, congratulations on your win. How are you feeling? How are you doing?

J
Hi, yeah, no, no, I’m good. Thank you. I – It’s an okay. When we talk about how you’re doing what, you know, when we ask each other question, How am I – How are you doing? I always I’m a few years ago, I remember I kind of committed myself that I wouldn’t do that blanket. Yeah, I’m fine. Where my world was falling apart. You know? I mean, like, when we do that, yeah, fine. But we’re not. And so is always said to myself, I’ll be honest, when someone whenever anyone asked me, How am I I’d always be honest. And I am okay. But there are great challenges which make life tough. Do you know I mean, so that’s how I am, that’s not.

R
So you’re getting by, but there’s still stuff that you’re working through and getting – and overcoming? Right?

J
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there’s things that way, I sort of felt the moment where I feel that sense of weight, you know, each day and you’re trying to work out in your head, how to, how to manage those, those challenges, really, and those emotionally those difficulties where you’re looking at people that you love, and, and there’s a struggle, and you’ve tried to help them and you don’t know how to. Yeah, and it can, can be quite a can feel like quite a burden at times really, in the sense that you want to be able to do your very best and help people through difficulty, but you’re not sure how best to do that. So in a roundabout way, I’m okay. But yeah, sort of navigating my way through some challenges at that moment.

R
Well, I’m, I’m sorry to hear that there’s some challenges, but I’m confident that you will, or I hope that you will be able to get through them smoothly, and that things will be better on the other side for you and the people that you’re supporting.

J
Thanks, Rasta, appreciate that.

R
And so you’re doing okay. But are you feeling about being the winner of the prize in short, storytelling? How does that feel?

J
Yeah, that’s, that’s a real delight. And, you know, that’s it. Yeah. It’s, it’s something that’s really, really thrilled me and encouraged me and been a real boost as just, you know, as, as writers, you always, you’re always questioning yourself, I think, a lot of the time, and I think that’s true for a lot of us in whatever we do, actually, I think a lot of us feel like that, that sort of questioning your ability and, and how good you are and what you’re doing. And so hearing about this is it’s made me feel really happy is a great thrill. Because it is an affirmation, you know, it feels like an affirmation as a writer and and that somebody see something in you that they believe in. So yeah, I’m delighted it feels great. And so in such a boost and a lift to my spirits, so I really appreciate it.

R
I’m glad that you feel boosted because I we cinnabar moth do are fans of your work. And we do love reading what you’ve written with. Matt? Sorry, I’m Nigerian. Yeah, Magi I’m sorry. I have a habit of saying, Magi from other people. So yeah, with with me j we are big fans of how you’ve written it and your style of writing. We’ve enjoyed it. And of course, we also have visit which is coming out in winter Anthology for this upcoming December. And we are happy that you feel boosted and confident to continue with your work because we are we really do enjoy it. So thank you. When you first heard that you won, what were your first thoughts when you receive that contact saying that you won the prize?

J
You know, I actually thought I actually thought was a mistake. I thought I can’t I can’t actually be me. Which is shows isn’t it? How little sometimes we view ourselves really, but I did honestly I thought it was mistake. And then and then I sort of thought well, you know, I’m an imposter. You know, there’s no way that I can have been chosen for this because, you know my writings. You know, you look at other people and you know, sales, which we shouldn’t do. I’m getting better at that. But there’s times where I still do it and I just thought oh it’s a mistake. And then And then, you know, as kind of It dawned, it wasn’t a mistake. Yeah. cinnabar had actually chosen me that that sense of our mistake, delight and fullness, you know, because it’s like I said, it’s a, it’s a real boost. And, and a thrill to be chosen for this really is it’s, it’s been such a lift for me. So thank you.

R
Well, we thank you for writing and giving us the opportunity in a way to give you the boost by having your writing out there and for us to enjoy. And so going a bit into the story, can you tell us a bit of the inspiration behind it? And it was published by cosmic core? Yeah. And can you tell us a bit of the inspiration behind Magi and why?

J
Well, it’s interesting, really. A few well, basically, my, my daughter was vocational ballet school. And which is no longer and it’s a long story. But because of that, we would, we would spend a lot of hour driving up and down the motorway to pick her out and bring her home and take it back and whatever. And so there’s a lot of hours where you’re, when you’re sat in the car driving, thinking, right, and one of these journeys late at night. And it was, it was about a year ago, actually, and where I’d seen a submission called for short stories around the holiday season. And it could be about any holiday. And, and I hadn’t actually at that point, written any short stories. I’ve been working on my novel, and a novella, but haven’t actually plunged into writing short stories. And I saw this submission called like, a few days before this while I was sitting in the car driving, and it sort of piqued my interest. And I thought maybe I should write something or attempt something. So I’ve been reflecting on whether or not I should do that and then driving down the motorway A middle of the night. And this idea sprung into my head around Christmas, and twisting the sort of the traditional Christmas story. And creating something a little bit different. I wanted to, I wanted to create a character, who is the Magi in my story, who was a twist on on that traditional Christmas story, really the idea of a traveler, so the Magi in their traditional Christmas story. Sort of travelers and astronomers from the start May and to comparing gifts and, and I liked that idea, but I wanted to kind of make it into quite a dark and twisted event really where you could kind of look at look at those, that idea of travelers with gifts and make it something that was a true horror story, you know, that kind of took that idea of generosity and, and worship and turned into something altogether different. And yeah, and as I was kind of on that drive home, it all the sort of the pieces of the story clicked in because I was you know, I was in the car for three hours, I think it was and in that time, I’ve got to piece those parts of the story together and imagine what a dark version of these travelers might look like. And that’s where the initial idea came from actually, as I was driving.

R
Okay. So it was just an idea that popped into your head of, of, kind of an old lore that’s been around for a while and and thinking yeah, how can I put a twist on this?

J
Yeah, absolutely. And I think because, I mean, one of the one of the things that strikes me, certainly around holiday seasons, and I mean here in the UK, and it’s, you know, it’s probably the same in the West generally, but here in the UK, Christmas is so sanitized, it’s you know, it’s you know, we spend a lot of time in the build up, you know, to Christmas, you know, preparing for it and, and parts of it I love you know, you know, being with family and having that time together and sharing life and time off work and, and generosity, giving gifts to each other, and trying to remember those things which are really important in life about coming together and like our common humanity, and about compassion and kindness and all of that which I love, which as a family we try and do not just at Christmas, but we’re around But there’s also so much of it, which is sanitized. And it’s interesting, really, the Christmas story has been so sanitized, and you forget, kind of, there’s a real brutality to the story, you know, the idea of a young teenage girl who’s pregnant and curious circumstances, who’s probably was cast out of a village and, and then you’ve got this kind of idea of a psychotic King is trying to kill children. And, you know, these are horrible dark themes, really. Things of rejection, and then, you know, as a young family in the center of the story, are refugees, you know, they have to kind of flee and find safety somewhere in another country, which are really significant themes for us today. You know, certainly in the UK, we’re politically, you know, we’ve got a government that are trying to turn back asylum seekers, you know, which is in itself a really dark political journey, we’re on, you know, very worrying the government that don’t care about people who are seeking safety. You know, so these are, these are significant themes, you know, but there are themes that rarely come up, when, when we’re approaching Christmas, and when Christmas itself comes, we don’t really approach these themes at all, we’ll think about them. And, you know, as writers, you know, fiction writers, we get an opportunity to, to say something, say something that perhaps is not normally said, and to imagine worlds and stories and themes that that we can bring into the light as it were. And, and in some ways, yeah, the Magi is just a story about twisted and hopefully interesting villain. But also, there’s themes and tones underneath it, that talk about oppression and about what it’s like to live as a person of color. You know, these are, these are themes that kind of are there and present within the story, in a way subtly, but also kind of in your face as well. And I think it’s important in a world that sanitizes stuff, as writers to bring this stuff into the light and to hold people’s faces and eyes open to it and say, Look, this is happening. This is going on. And, you know, we need you to be aware of it so that things can change. Does that does that make sense?

R
Yeah, I think if I were to try and express my understanding of it, use it as an opportunity to bring bring to focus and to kind of shine a light on two concepts and themes that exist in real life, but put them into a different framework. Because yeah, absolutely. In real life there. As far as I’m aware, at least there is no Magi going around. Doing any of the things that happen in the story. Absolutely. I’m not going to say exactly what happened. So I split it for anybody really enjoy it for yourself, or lovely listeners. It’s a wonderful story. Dark, but well done.

J
Stark, yeah. It’s funny, actually, people, people sometimes, you know, like, my wife doesn’t like horror at all. Like, she can’t, yeah, she can’t bear it, like anything. Anything slightly dark or horror focused. She really can’t stand it frightens her and It unsettles her and she, she anything she watches has to be sort of light and breezy, and without kind of dark themes. So, so I can’t even when I’ve got these ideas, and I’m writing them down, and I’d like to kind of rebound off of someone, I can’t really do that. I can’t do it with her because it’s unsettled. You know, the last thing I want to do, but my daughter, my eldest daughter, Grace, she loves, loves dark stories and horror. And as you know, writes for you, you know, she’s, you know, got a copy of things being published with you. And so I have got something in the house that I can, you know, fly these ideas with, which is, which is really, really good. But, but people sometimes can’t believe that I write horror, because I suppose because of my, my job and the things that I do. They’re always a bit surprised that I’m a horror writer. And how dark it gets it does. My stuff does get pretty dark at times.

R
Yeah. So you mentioned that you’re a horror writer. Would you say that you’re for short stories, or just in general that horror is your favorite genre?

J
Yeah, I would, I think, you know, I do write other themes. I mean, my the novel that, you know, I’m writing with you. The first novel that I’m writing View is actually a noir novel, it’s mystery Noir. Crime, it’s is not actually a horror novel. Yeah. But my, my go to definitely is horror, I think, I think in part because I find it such a flexible genre with so many avenues that you can walk down with it. You know, there’s, I think, for me, it’s, it’s the most diverse and interesting genre for me personally, I think, you know, I always find when I’m writing horror, that there are so many places you can go with it. And so many styles you can do with horror, because there is, you know, that, I mean, you see all over it, you know, you can have the kind of the, the horror, that’s blood and gore and sort of shocking and in your face, but then you can have the horror that’s quiet and brewed in and, you know, subtle, that kind of almost creeps up on you as you’re reading it. Yeah, and everything else in between. So, for me, it’s, it’s a genre that I can do a lot with, and take it into all sorts of different places, which I want to do, because I want to be I want to be flexible. As a writer, you know, I think we have a style, we each have a style. But I’d like to be flexible, I’d like to be able to write in a variety of ways. And surprise people, you know, who perhaps, you know, over time, hopefully, people will get used to my work and, and see it more often. And I’d like to still be able to surprise people when they read my stuff, you know, who then don’t expect me to perhaps go the places that I go to? So, yeah, I want to keep that as a surprise, when people are familiar with my stuff, but never entirely sure where it’s gonna go, or how it’s gonna end up.

R
And so you feel like horror provides you with that kind of that room to you have your style, but you’re not necessarily stuck in a formula where people can be like, Oh, well, it’s Joe Howard writing this? And of course, it’s going to go like this.

J
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I, you know, I, I wouldn’t want to, you know, I mean, I suppose in some ways, you know, it’s difficult, isn’t it good. When you look at when you look at the literary world, and, and you look at the writers that the famous writers who don’t even need to advertise, you know, release a book in its cells. And there’s a lot of those writers that, you know, that you know, what you’re going to get, and for some people, that’s fine, you know, and, you know, there’s, there’s, you know, there’s some horses, which which I like, because you know, that, when you buy it, you know what you’re going to get, but you don’t really need to think deep because you know, where they’re going to go and what they’re going to do. But I think actually, as writers, we’ve got an opportunity not to do that, you know, and especially, especially, I suppose, within the indie circuit, more so than the kind of the mainstream circuit is that I think, as indie writers and authors and publishers, you know, there’s an opportunity to, to offer sort of, like surprise and, and to anticipate, you know, encourage writers to, to take risks, I think, as well to, you know, to not kind of get into a formulaic routine, but to take risks with their writing and sort of challenge themselves to go places perhaps that they didn’t realize they could go, because I think as creatives and writers actually, we have a lot of a lot within us that is untapped. And actually, we just need the right people to encourage it out of us and, and to offer us the opportunity to take a risk, which I think you know, I think cinnabar that’s part of your strength is that you encourage writers to come out of their shell, and to take risks and to and to imagine what they can do, not what they can’t do. And I think that’s really something quite remarkable. Because I think in life is not, you know, I mean, I look at on the GOV tangent here, but I look at, like the education system, certainly in the UK. And our children aren’t encouraged to take risks or to or to be free thinkers or to challenge themselves, or to ask questions, even though it’s very, like there’s a formula, you know, and you know, I see it when, you know, my kids have to do like, say story homework where they have to write a story and has a very particular very rigid framework that they have to work with him to write this story, and for it to be being as an acceptable story. And and actually, I think that’s true throughout their education. You know, it’s very very fixed and rigid, isn’t it? And, and actually, we need opportunities in life to break free of that and to actually challenge ourselves to think differently. And this is, I honestly think this is why the arts are so important because it gives us opportunity to express and to free ourselves from the, from the kind of the chains that society puts on you where you have to think a certain way, and you have to write a certain way. And, and there are certain frameworks that you have to work with him that, you know, when you’re a writer that you can go, you know, your story can go anywhere, and it can do anything, you can create any words, you want Kearney, you know, literally, you can create, so amazing. And so for me, it’s like this, embrace that, like, it’s incredible, where we can take people, but I thought about this the other day, so you can literally go anywhere, as a writer do anything. And you can bring that into the world and take people with you, when they read it, they go in with you, wherever you were, whatever, well, you’re creative, you’re taking people somewhere, that’s a real honor and a privilege to be able to do that. And so for me, I want to be free and not sort of be bound and think, you know, this is my style, this is my formula, I must do this. But think I can go anywhere with this. And, you know, I think part of that is being comfortable in your own skin. And, and thinking to yourself, This is me, and that’s okay. And you know, it might be that you have a certain style, and that’s where you’re most comfortable. And, and that’s great. And you want to pursue that. But it’s embracing your owns your own somebody this and thinking, Okay, this isn’t me. And, and that’s great. And that’s cool. And my writing is going to reflect that. And I’m going to just go wherever I can with this. So I’ll find that really exciting actually.

R
And see it say that, when you think about your work and where you’d like to go next. It’s very open for you. And kind of, in a sense, a self discovery process, but also a way to put the parts of yourself that you already know to express that in a way that’s free and without necessarily the limitations that you might have to other media. What are other forms of expression?

J
Yeah, definitely. I, you know, I, I think for me, I you know, over the last five years, I’ve been on a real significant personal journey, really, in terms of my own worldview and thought processes and faith and the way that I view things. And I think I’ve become a desert, I wanted to really sort of embrace my sense of self and be comfortable with who I am, and not hide who I am as well. There’s, you know, there’s there’s a real challenge, you know, I think all of us where there isn’t a where we hide ourselves, don’t

R
we? Yeah, I’ve experienced that myself. When interacting with people. I’m like, okay, I can I can show this part of who I am. Because I think we all reveal a little bit of ourselves, we interact with people, but we control. It’s kind of like, we show facets of ourselves rather than the whole thing. Yes.

J
Yeah, I completely, completely agree. I think that’s, as you know, I’m part of that. So protection thing, isn’t it, where we, we want to kind of guard our hearts a little bit, you know, and recognize that not every personal situation, warrants or is is safe for us to kind of completely open up as to who we are. But then, you know, part of my sort of job really, over the last 15 years, but I sort of realized that it was about kind of hiding who I was because if I really told people why I actually thought, what I’d lose my job for a star. Exactly. And you know, that people would not necessarily, you know, there’s why I say really, what I’ve found over the years is that people are willing to sacrifice relationships on the altar of belief and ideology, find that really sad. Find it really sad that you can be in a relationship with someone and when they find out what you actually believe about something, then they don’t want to talk to you anymore. And you know, for me, it’s about unconditional love, you know, that we we love one another without these conditions. But you know, everyone has beautifully themselves and we embrace each other and love each other, whatever. And, you know, part of my heart is simply to love people without condition. And part of that then was about me loving myself without condition, and in free to be myself, and expressing what I honestly believe about things without fear or favor. And actually, my writing is an expression is an expression of that of me saying, This is who I am. And, obviously, you know, the worlds that I create, and the people I create on me, in the sense that, like, the major isn’t many people, which is a really because but I’m free to be able to create those characters without fear, you know, and that, you know, I’m not going to hide the creative juices that I have, and let them flow and say, Look, this is me, and this is what I write this is the stories that I create the worlds that I create, and I’m not going to hide that. And so part of really, honestly, with part of my whole writing, and becoming an author store journey, is about me simply embracing my own somebody’s nurse and being comfortable in my own skin and my own craft and running with that, and saying, you know, people people either like it, or I won’t, and that’s okay, isn’t it? You know, not everyone’s gonna like my writing, not everyone’s gonna enjoy it. And that’s okay. You know, that really is okay.

R
Yeah. And so you, you’re okay with people, not necessarily enjoying it. But I do think from what you’ve expressed that you do have certain goals or themes that you want to express to people that read your work. You mentioned before that you believe that authors shine a light on things and have the opportunity to at least shine light on different aspects of society, or concepts, ideologies, and such. So what would you say that you hope people get out of your work? If they were to read your writing and get something from it? Do you have any things in mind that you would want people to kind of take away?

J
I think, the load? I think it’s like that they would think a little bit more deeply about the world around them. There is you know, it’s funny, really, there’s a kind of duality that goes on in the world isn’t there? There’s a shallowness to the world, definitely, you know, and in part, that’s fine. You know, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that, you know, I mean, I like funny videos of kittens as much as anyone else. But there’s also so that shallowness also serves as a distraction to kind of deeper things, you know, where, you know, it’s kind of like, we’re being encouraged to look over there while behind our backs, something else is going on, that we should be really aware of, you know, I mean, my, you know, another part of my writing is, is as a, an opinion, piece journalist, where I shine light on things that are going on in the world politically, and culturally, where I, where I expose, and bring attention to say, political corruption or oppression, or people suffering, you know, and I feel that’s a really big part of my, you know, my role as a writer is to say, look, this is what’s happening in the world and don’t turn away from it. So I think part of my hope, as a writer, in both my fiction and my kind of nonfiction work, is to say to people, look, you know, this is happening, and, you know, what are we going to do about weakening? Are we going to think about it? Are we going to challenge it? Are we going to think about ways in which we can respond to it? Or are we just going ignore it and look at look at the kitten video and pretend that this other stuffs not happening? So I, you know, in all my writing, I hope that people sort of sit back and go, okay, yeah, I’m sorry about that. What are we? What am I going to do about that? How am I going to think about that? It’s kind of like peeling back the skin a little bit, and looking underneath and Sam, what’s going on here? So I hope, I hope my writing does that for people. Obviously, also, I want people just to enjoy it and be entertained and go away thinking that was a good story. But you know, I won’t obviously want people to think that I’m not trying to put people through the wringer every time that I write when you’re constantly questioning the existence or anything but I want people to enjoy it. But I do also want that to be there to be an element of people thinking more deeply about the world in which they live and asking questions about it.

R
See, your your writing style is very much about this unraveling of things and this breaking things apart for people to see us I think that’s a wonderful goal of having people or giving people the opportunity to make a decision about how they want to interact with information they might not have otherwise had, if the light Yeah, hadn’t been shown on this, on these issues or these concepts that they’re not exposed to.

J
And I think so, I mean, I, you know, I, I’d hope I never, I hope I never come across as like, like preachy or anything like that, either. You know, I don’t want to be like that. I just want to kind of offer, offer perspective, you know, and, you know, and hope that people enjoy, enjoy what I do, you know, I want people to enjoy it, you know, and, and have fun, and I read it.

R
Well, you certainly have been having fun reading your work so far. With visage with Magi, it’s been really wonderful working with you. And thank you, and experiencing your writing style, I’ve personally found your work with your development of these characters to kind of create the shape of what they are and who they are, to be really enjoyable on a on a personal level, with the way that you characterize the Magi instantly is something clearly powerful. But what that power is, is still mysterious enough to draw me in and be like, what, what’s going on here. And I really enjoyed that about the story. So I wanted to share my own enjoyment of the story a little bit with you, and also maybe give a little bit of a teaser to the listeners. Want to know what I’m talking about? You have to read the story.

J
Thank you, I appreciate that. I do appreciate that encouragement. That’s good.

R
That’s great. So I want to ask you, when it comes to your writing, and your process, do you have any person or any thing that inspires your writing in particular?

J
Well, I mean, I mean, in part, it’s probably like a soul is is my own story. So, you know, I, I’m an identical twin. So, you know, unfortunately, there are two of us in the world. And again, but Tom, you know, obviously, Tom is – is signed with cinnabar as well, which is amazing. But yeah, me and Tom has identical twins, and we were adopted as babies. So our birth mother was Indian, and our birth family hail from the Punjab region in India, and Assam, in northeast India, as well. So there’s, there’s a kind of, and being adopted, you know, being put up for adoption, and then growing up in, you know, like, a white community efficient community, which, again, part of my, my story, I was an oyster fisherman, and all those things. And everything about your own story. impacts the way that you write it does, you know, there’s no getting away from it. And I wouldn’t want to get you know, so, in part is my story, my own sort of story inspires my writing. The people that I love, and my wife, my children, they do too, but I get a lot of inspiration in my writing from ancient writers, people that are long gone, that have left their work in the world. So I’ve read a lot of kind of writers in the first kind of five centuries, ad. People he wrote, like theology and philosophy and works on, like, what it means to be human and things like that. And I find their writing style fascinating and inspiring. There’s things that they say which, which aren’t said anymore, which are kind of lost. And so really like the last four or five years, I’ve read a lot of these ancient writers and then try to incorporate something or their ideas, and even quoting them in in certain things that I write, to try and bring their work back into the world. And, you know, I’m not the only person to do that. There’s lots of people doing it. And I can’t say I do particularly very well, but I just get inspired by the things they wrote. And the way they use language, which changes you know, we, you know, and also a lot of these writers, you know, they’re writing in Greek, and then that’s translated into English. So you often lose something of the style in that, but you can still get a get an idea. So I yeah, I’m really inspired by people who have written over the centuries really, their voices still echoing out to us today. Yeah. And I try and kind of have a hint of that in the way that I write, and because they they inspire me to be a better writer as well, because I sometimes read some of these ancient writers and I think, wow, you know, they knew how to write. And they didn’t know writing courses or anything, you know, they, they just had a way of using language and the language or the world around them and cutting it down. And so yeah, I get really inspired by these ancient people.

R
Okay. So you draw from these, your experiences, as well as the written experiences of the of these ancient works and such to take a different approach from necessarily the modern approach of looking at it and trying to draw from things that are still relevant than that things are called you. Yeah, what they wrote back then. Do you have any modern writers that you particularly draw from? Would you say, or is it mostly these older writers? That

J
Well, yeah, I mean, I. I do I mean, I, to be honest with you, like, I get inspired by loads, all the people that I connect with, on on Twitter, like all the writers on there, as so many great writers, who, you know, and I’m sort of reading their poetry and their short stories, and you know, and even just their Twitter threads, you know, where they’re writing a story on Twitter, which was cinnabar a brilliant way to do it, you know, Christopher does so well. And, you know, prompt that, then people start writing little short tweet stories, which are brilliant. And, actually, like, when I, when I read their work, they are inspiring, because there’s so many great writers doing such great things, and they’re not, you know, so many of us, you know, we’re not well known, or we, you know, in the grand scheme of things, and our work isn’t, as out there as perhaps many of us would like it to. But it’s there, and it’s, and it’s getting out there. And it’s um, for me, you know, personally, I love it, I love hearing all these different writers reading their stuff, and they’re all inspiring, you know, there’s too many to name, you know, in one go, you know, because there’s so many. And what a privilege that is to be able to read these people, you know, you look at just just at the author, page for cinnabar, and all these amazing writers who were doing great stuff, you know, and writing great stuff, and in all in their own unique way, and style. And I think we just need to celebrate all these people, because they’re wonderful, and they write in great things. Yeah, so yeah, I certainly get my inspiration from them. I think I think for me is like, I’m trying to get I am, I feel like I’m, as a writer, I’m ever more comfortable in my own skin. And I’m not trying to imitate what I don’t think I am not trying to imitate anybody. But just being encouraged by other writers to keep going and recognize that their, you know, their gift and their craft is an inspiration to me to keep learning is my gift to my craft. No. So yeah, you know, I, for me, it’s that community that you’re that is being built, you know, on social media was an example of when social media can be some be a force for real good, actually.

R
Yeah, I do agree with you that the writing community on Twitter’s tends to be on the very positive and supportive site and very encouraging. And I think that’s wonderful to help promote people’s creativity to come to light, because there are probably many authors over the years, who if they just had a little bit of encouragement, or potential authors, I should say, where they had a little bit of encouragement where they could have produced works, that would have been amazing and wonderful and beautiful. They didn’t receive that they didn’t have the opportunity to have that push through different circumstances. And so they never saw the light of day those potential creative works. Now, you think that with positive communities, which we’re trying to build with cinnabar moth, and which we have support from such positive and encouraging writers, such as yourself, interacting with the community, and our other authors who are also interact with the community and promoting is a really wonderful way to have that growth and have the opportunity to encourage others to kind of do the same.

J
Yeah, absolutely.

R
So if I had to ask if you had to choose one, I know you mentioned that there’s so many different writers that it would be hard to Really list them all off. But if you had to choose one, to kind of, say here, buddy, check out this person he has, that you could pick out that you would want to, you know, provide that little spotlight for.

J
Yeah, I mean, you’re right is difficult because so many people, so many people, I mean tons and tons. But I suppose someone that I really have a lot of time for and love their writing is Harry gas tager. And they, they tweet at Sunshine loft, and they are brilliant writer. And Perry is doing some great work with with poetry and the short form and has an incredible style. And Perry kind of they they really shine a light on on mental health and challenging kind of norms in society sort of, like asking questions around the mundane, and kind of flipping it and saying what’s really going on here. And as a parent, as a non binary queer writer, as well. And so they have a perspective that needs to be heard, that isn’t always heard in the, in the literary world. So I think, for me, I’d like to shine a light on Parian. Champion what they’re doing and get other people to read what they’re writing, because this really great stuff. And I’m noticing that theory is getting published more and more and literary mags are picking up their work, which is really encouraging and great. So I think Perry is actually starting a podcast actually. So that’ll be really great when that when that gets off the ground. To hear what Yeah, we really excited. So yeah, so for everyone on Twitter, it’s Harry’s tweeting at Sunshine loft. So go check Perry out and read their work and enjoy it. Really enjoy it. You will love it.

R
Well, thank you for talking with me today and Joe and being on the writers triangle. And congratulations on being the winner for the cinnabar moth literary collections prize for short storytelling. Can you tell us what thank you on social media?

J
Yes, uh, my Twitter account is @RevJoeHaward that’s H A W A R D it’s spelled funny. And yeah, that’s my, that’s my social media. I am working on my own website, which will be when it’s when it’s out will be Joehaward.co.uk. But that’s not quite ready yet. But when that’s ready, that’s where I’ll be on online. So it’d be their ad on Twitter, which you can find me which is where I’m active on social media.

R
Okay, thank you very much. And for all of our listeners, please be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com or cinnabar literary collections.com and check out the transcripts. And we’ll also have all the social media links for both Hayward as well as for Perry, and thank you all for listening. Joe, thank you for coming on. Talk with me today. It’s been lovely having you.

J
Thank you. It’s been great to chat Rasta, it’s been really good.

R
To all of our listeners. We hope you have a wonderful, whatever time of day it is. And bye bye