Episode 25: Anthony Engebretson

R
Or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the writers triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Anthony Engebretson. Author of Sair Back Sair Banes. Welcome, Anthony, how you doing today?

A
I’m doing well. I’m hanging in there. But I think today has been a pretty good day at least. So yeah, I’m doing I’m doing good.

R
I’m glad to hear that you’re doing well, and I’m happy to have you on. Are you? Are you feeling excited about the release of Sair Back Sair Banes?

Yeah, absolutely. I’m also very nervous about it. It’s my first book ever. Like I’ve been included in some anthologies, but this is the first time where it’s all just me. And you know, I’m not sure. Which is scarier the idea of nobody reading it, or the idea of a lot of people reading it. But at the same time, I know it’s a good book that deserves to be read. So I do hope it’s the latter.

R
Plan. That is something that is a bit of a struggle as like, and all these other people to look at this kind of a distraction from you, but with your own novel. There’s no distraction. It’s all you.

A
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

R
So how long have you been? How long ago did you write, Sair Back, Sair Banes?

A
I began writing it early last year. I don’t really have a specific date when I did. But I think it had to have been around February or March, when I really started to begin outlining the story and developing that aspect.

R
Okay, so it took roughly about a year from the start of it to publication.

A
Yeah, it was, it was a pretty quick turnaround. I began sending it out to places for publication around June, and then got my offer from Ghost orchid in September. Okay,

R
so you, you said that you started writing it as well, early on in the year, and then you had it done around you? Is that correct? Yep. Oh, wow. That’s a pretty quick writing process. What what is the writing process like for you? Um,

A
yeah, like the this process was fun. I really enjoyed writing this book. Much of it’s set in Scotland. But I’ve never been to the UK, let alone Scotland yet. So I did have to do a lot of research on that. And it was kind of an interesting exercise to write a story set somewhere. I’ve never actually been. But I hoped for the hope, hoping I got it right. Yeah, I. And yeah, I just kind of started with the the outline, as I always do kind of developed my primary characters, kind of got a first draft going probably not not too far into the year and then started sending it out to my writers groups. And I am pretty amazed at the turnaround time that I was able to get this book out because a lot of other books I’ve written, I’ve had a much slower process. Before I sent them out for publication.

R
I guess they use you written other books before and have a bit of experience with that. But this is the first one that’s going to publication, is that correct? Yes,

A
this is, this is my first novella. I’ve written like novels before, but they kind of haven’t gone anywhere. Or I’ve sent some out for queries and just didn’t get any luck, or others I just didn’t really send at all. I’ve got one novel that I’m working on that I’m hoping to send out for query and, and I have a good feeling about it. But yeah, this was my first novella, which is probably why it took me maybe a little, much shorter amount of time to write. But I’ve also I also feel like this might, the novella might be my favorite format to write just kind of hits that sweet spot of not being too long. But it’s also long enough that you’ve got a lot to work with. And it kind of feels like in sort of the indie publishing world, especially with horror, like, novellas are kind of having this sort of Renaissance and in a way, which I think is fantastic. And I think the format is pretty suited to horror in many ways, like you again, you just have enough wiggle room to sort of really develop the horror but at the same time, it’s not so long that it kind of overstays its welcome. You know, which is not to say that novels and short story It can’t be good for horror to like, of course, there are plenty of really good horror novels and short stories. But I just think that novellas are particularly great for the genre.

R
Okay, I hadn’t thought of that before about the balance of length between a novella and a novel, or a short story where you can kind of have that room to still develop a world for people to interact with, and all the characters that you need for that fully rich experience. Yeah. And with that, I, I have delight to ask you with the process changing from writing novels to writing novellas, you said that you enjoy the format. Was the process, difficult to adjust to? Or did it feel roughly the same? Uncomfortable? What was it in terms of how you felt going through it?

A
Yeah, I felt like I was pretty comfortable with writing this, this book in this kind of format, I guess, after working on books, like my longest novel is 100,000 words. So I’m working on something that’s only about like, less than 30,000 words has kind of, I don’t know, it deals a lot easier to handle for me like, and so I think it’s kind of prepared me to get a lot more comfortable with this kind of length. And yeah, I just had a lot of fun with writing this, I don’t think I would describe the process painful at all. Like, I think I like prior to writing the book, I was in a pretty bad spot mentally. But when I began, and I was kind of on an upward trend, and I think creating a new story and kind of developing that was really helping my mental health as well. So it was just a positive experience. Overall.

R
I have awesome be able to have the writing process help you with whatever you’re going through and contributes to your mental health. I think that’s actually a fairly common thing for authors I’ve talked to as well as my own experience, writing is often then a way to, that helps to, even if it’s not directly related to whatever is going on in our lives, still the other process on those feelings or emotions?

A
Yeah, no, definitely. It helps you kind of process. Yeah, the feelings that you’re going through, you can sort of let that out in many ways. And also, yeah, and it just kind of also gets the creative brain going. And I think that kind of helps with the that that serotonin

R
for sure, for sure. And so I wanted, you mentioned that you sent it off for two different places. And I want to ask you, how did you discover ghost orchid practice?

A
Well, I mostly learned about their their submission call from social media. They had a submission call for novellas. And yeah, I guess they seemed like a pretty good fit. They, they were relatively fledgling press. They started I think, at the beginning of last year. And my novella is actually going to be among their first published novellas like they’re publishing for this year. And then there’s, these are the first four novellas that they’re publishing. I didn’t know about there, they also had some 100 word anthologies prior to submitting, so I knew about those as well. But yeah, I, I’m not 100% sure why I felt like they would be a good fit. Just give them they didn’t have as much output prior. But I don’t know, I just had a really good feeling and kind of always secretly hoped they would be the one to pick it up. So it’s just been good. It was just a really good experience of submitting to them.

R
That’s awesome. That’s great. And so with the, when you first looked at them, you looked into them, it was through looking into them that you decided that you wanted to publish with them. And then even working with them to get it from being written to being published and going that publication process. And what would you what would you say has been the most surprising thing about publishing with Ghost Orchid Press if there’s anything surprising.

A
Yeah. I don’t know about surprising, but, you know, they’ve just been really easy and open to work with, you know, they’ve been very transparent every step of the way in the process, you know, sharing with me what they’re currently doing, you know, when they’re going to do it, what the exact CLAY they want for me at any given time when they want it by. It’s just yeah, it’s been they’ve been really good to work with. And, you know, I just feel like I’ve been able to trust them completely with my book and so far that that’s paid off, I think.

R
So you’d say that the transparency helps you to feel comfortable throughout the entire process, and is one of the key points that’s really helped you feel good?

A
Yes, definitely.

R
That makes sense. I think that transparency is very important. So that we can know, hey, what’s going on with my book? This is my baby. I’m giving to you, I need to know what you’re gonna do with it.

Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, and it’s, again, I just, I feel like I’ve, I’ve always been able to trust them with this. And, you know, they’ve, they’ve been good about involving me in the process, and just letting me know, what’s happening when, you know, getting my input on things. And so yeah, that’s just been really great.

R
I’m happy to hear that it always makes me happy to hear our authors, are you happy with their process, and when publication because that’s, oftentimes can be a great source of stress. And whenever it’s not, I think that’s always wonderful. So I want to ask you about the publishing process now a little bit more generally, rather than slickly ghost Orchid Press, what would you say has been the most surprising thing about publication and that process?

Um, I guess one thing has been, like learning about how blurbs work that process? Yeah, I just guess it kind of seems, it’s always seemed a little awkward and strange to me, you know, to kind of reach out to a person say, Hey, you think you can read my book and, you know, give it praise? But, and but I do think, you know, it can pay off in big ways. And, you know, it’s definitely worth reaching out to authors. Or, you know, whoever you think would be a good fit to provide a blurb for your book? Yeah, that’s kind of the main, I guess, surprising thing for the publishing process that I wasn’t really too familiar with, prior to diving in, you know, to this process of publishing my book.

R
Right. So when, when you’re talking about blurbs? Are you talking about just short reviews? Or? Yeah,

like the short reviews that you put on like the jacket of the book, or put on the, you know, website or the Amazon site? Or wherever, you know?

R
Yeah, that that process is interesting to say the least. And so, you’ve now got it soon to be published, you’ve gone through this entire process, it’s been comfortable for you, which is very happy thing. And now, it’s going to be released, there’s not much left to do. And I want to ask you, do you plan on celebrating the release of setbacks or events, um,

I don’t have anything too special planned. I mean, part of me just wants to unplug from the internet and then go hide in a corner. But now, probably nothing too special plan Am I just, you know, hanging out with my family hanging out with my fiancee and just, you know, maybe pour some wine or something.

R
You’re mostly planning, just enjoying the kind of the relaxation from all the stuff that gets involved in just being like, poof, now you can just relax for a bit. Just be yourself. Yeah, spend

that day to relax and, you know, continue working on the next thing the next day.

R
And so following up about the release, you mentioned staying home with your family. Will you say that? They’re excited about the release?

Yeah, I think so. It’s Yeah, it sounds like everyone in my family I’ve talked to is looking forward to it and is planning on buying, you know, at least one copy, if not several. I’ve got some people from my family and my fiance’s family asked Even for signed copies already that they would like that they would, they would like to buy it still, but they would like to, for me to sign it too. So yeah, I think everyone that I know is excited and looking forward to, to my books released.

R
I mean, that’s awesome. Having people who are very supportive throughout the process can make it a lot more enjoyable. And so yeah, would you say, with your writing? Did you involve your fiance much in your writing process? Did you talk with them much? Or was it more of a private process? Now that’s done, it’s something you’re opening up a bit more about? What was What’s your process when it comes to interacting with other people while going through writing? Yeah.

When I’m writing it, when I’m kind of developing it, I don’t really like to talk to anyone about it. I just kind of like to keep it private, keep it to myself. But once I’ve kind of gotten to the second or third draft, then I’m ready to start having like, beta readers. And yeah, usually, my parents and my fiancee or I first people that I turned to for my initial beta readers. And then I then I turned to other people, my writing group and, and that as well. So yeah, that’s kind of I definitely do involve them in the process, you know, not necessarily at the beginning. You know, at the beginning, it’s it’s definitely just completely my own private thing that I keep to myself again, I just I don’t I for some reason, I just don’t really like talking about it, you know, what I’m writing, you know, during that process, and maybe part of it is I just like to, you know, when I give it to them to beta read it, I just like to let it speak for itself, too.

R
But, yeah, okay, yeah, I can understand that. Because I know, when I was writing, my first book, that in the initial process is it felt very fledgling, and I was still formulating a lot of my thoughts. So talking with another person would have been very difficult the very beginning, once things are a little bit more solid than there’s some thing that I can express myself coherently. Right? So it makes sense to me that you want to wait and be able to be like, here it is, and I can talk about it. Because I know everything about it, it’s fully formed my hand. There’s no mystery for yourself.

Right? Yeah, no, that’s definitely it, too. And sometimes I feel like, you know, the one thing I need to work on is like, you know, describing my work and creating, like, summarizing it, because I’m always like, I don’t know, when I when I try to describe what I’m working on. It never sounds as good as it actually is, you know?

R
Right. It’s so hard. It’s like, there’s so much to cover, how can I cover the entire body of this story? In three lines, you know, exactly. I think that’s one of the bigger challenges as well, for, for me, at least when I was going into the application process was the summary that goes on the back of the book.

A
Right.

R
So you’ve got it public sector bank survey. And, sir back Serbians. Sorry about that. You got it coming out soon. And you have been writing other works. Or you’ve been writing any other work since then. And what do you hope happens next with the publication? Yeah.

A
Yeah. So I do, of course, hope this book does well. And I’d certainly love to, for it to eventually do well enough to even be an audio book. I think that would be really great. And then yeah, I have a another novella that I’ve written since then, and I’m hoping to get that sent out this year. And hopefully, I can find a publisher for that. And then I also have a novel that that my 100,000 word novel, that I’m editing up and I’m hoping to start querying for agents soon Yeah, so those are kind of the big things. And then I’m also writing a few short stories here and there to hopefully send to some submission goals.

R
Okay, so you’ve got quite a bit going on other works as well. So you might can tell you’ve been writing quite a bit. Do you want writing to be your career? Is that something that you’re hoping for? If every, if everything goes well,

I mean, that would be fantastic. I’m not 100% Sure I could make that happen. Like, right now I’m just writing what I want to write, you know, hoping it will find its place. And then meanwhile, I’m just kind of finding other areas where I could be happy making a living. You know, I guess I’m not really into the idea of trying to do the hustle and trying to grind myself into dust, trying to launch a writing career where millions of others are trying to do the same. Anyone else? So I know that luck and chance tend to be part of that too. But you know, I think just at the end of the day, you know, it’s not really about the fame, or the money or the social media following or any of that, you know, I just want to tell stories and share those stories with as many people as I can, you know, that’s really all that matters. And, but if I was able to, if it was somehow able to become a career, that would be great, but I think that’s kind of more of a bonus in my mind.

R
Okay, so your main goal is you you have this desire to write, you want to write and you want to have if you read and the needs that comes with that. Hey, bonus.

A
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

R
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And we’re following the leg of the concept of other things happening that you don’t necessarily expect or plan for. Unless you mentioned, there may be some luck involved with it. But if Sarah, back Serbians were to become a best seller. What would you do? Or what plan do you have? If you’ve already made plans for that? Um, yeah, I

don’t know what exactly that would change. I would certainly be a happy camper. If it was a best seller and, and I would hope to, you know, have it like I said, it would be great to have it via made into an audiobook. And then perhaps it could potentially have a, you know, have lined up for republication as well. But yeah, no, I think I don’t necessarily have plans for that contingency. Again, I would mostly just be a happy camper. And, you know, but the other thing is, like, my personal standard for this book of being a best seller is like, more than 20 people buy it? Right now.

R
Okay, I think 20 People will definitely buy it. So since it’s going to be the best seller by your standard. Do you plan on celebrating once it does?

Oh, I mean, yeah, maybe? I mean, again, it would probably be a modest one. But I definitely would.

R
That’s great. And falling on this track of success with it becoming a best seller and kind of that momentum that can build into something else. Would you want the novella setbacks or beans to be changed over into a movie or a TV show? Even like a TV miniseries? or anything of the sort?

Yeah, I wouldn’t be thrilled if it were made into a movie. I think a movie would definitely be a better format for this story than a TV show. In my opinion, but I do think it would be a good one. Yeah.

R
So it’s possible to happen. You totally be down for that. Oh, yeah. And if that’s the case, with it becoming a movie, since that’s your preference, we imagine it’s a movie. Do you know or do you have any ideas of any people that you’d want to cast into certain roles or a certain characters?

Um, no, I kind of have no idea like, I guess when I when I write my stories, sometimes I like to, you know, quote, unquote, cast my characters with people just to sort of be able to picture them in my head. So like, for instance, when I was writing the book I pictured the character of Gordon is being played by you and Bremner. Sometimes I Picture the protagonist Genevieve being played by like Michelle Fairley from Game of Thrones. But those, again, were more to give me a picture in my head. So I don’t necessarily have a wish list of any one. I’d like to see cast.

R
Oh, okay. So during your writing process, you do actually imagine these things to kind of give a bit more shape for yourself. But not really a set in stone thing. Yes. I never thought of that idea for helping the writing process. But that does sound like a cool technique that I might borrow from you.

A
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it works pretty well. I mean, again, it just really helps me sort of picture the character in my head, as I’m writing. And, again, it’s good sometimes like, it can be kind of hard when you sort of have just kind of an abstraction of a person, it kind of it kind of in your head, it’s kind of a kind of hard to describe them. And

R
so definitely being able to visualize them can help with describing mannerisms or cat certain things, as you picture that might get lost if you’re just thinking in terms of words.

A
Exactly, yes.

R
So going back to the movie, idea, and with the book becoming a movie, do you have any idea of what level of creative control you’d want over things when it comes to the narration or any casting any of that?

Yeah, I don’t know. You know, to be honest, it would be kind of more fun just to see what other people do with it. You know, there was a time once upon a time when I wanted to be a filmmaker, like, back, way back when I spent a semester at Film School before transferring to the college where I would actually graduate. And for while, I wanted to be a filmmaker, then I decided I kind of wanted to be a screenwriter instead, and just focus on the writing aspect, because I didn’t really want to do the production process. And then after a while, I just kind of started steering more towards fiction writing and just felt like that would be more enjoyable for me. Yeah, like, I may want to break into screenwriting again one day, but right now I just kind of want to focus on the fiction writing and, and I guess, I also, not right now, I guess I just don’t have a whole lot of interest in adapting this particular story into a screenplay. Like, I think the story would make a great movie, but I guess I just don’t really feel like writing it. But, you know, I guess I’ve, I’ve told this story, the way I wanted to tell it through the medium I wanted to tell it in in. So again, if it were picked up to be made into a movie, I guess it would just be really fun to see what others do with it, you know, and I guess all I would want on my part is just to be able to go visit the set and you know, meet the meet the cast and the crew.

R
So for you, it’d be it’d be I’ve done. I’ve done my part in this. And now go, Blossom. Exactly. Yeah, I think that’s a cool way to look at z if you’ve done your part and letting other people do their part and telling the story in that way. And seeing how they change things can be exciting at times, and see the different takes. It goes through the entire process of you know, they take the your baby and they turn it into a movie. And once it’s become a movie, it airs and would you want to go to the premiere? And if you did, who would you bring with you to the premiere?

Yeah, I would love to go to the premiere. Kind of especially if it premiered somewhere in Scotland, I think that would be the most fitting. But if I were to go I would definitely bring my my fiancee i If I could bring more people I probably invite my parents, maybe my siblings, but I guess it kind of depends on where it where it’s at. And you know what works. What works best for everyone to get their bed. I figure most people can kind of just watch the movie where they need to on their own time. So I would my most definitely mine would be my fiance. So

R
thank you that makes sense. Your fiance is closest to you. And as you mentioned, people can watch movies pretty much anywhere these days. So there’s not quite as much rush needed being Are people the person closest to you, if you only get the plus one follow up on that, on this entire art falling into its zeniff, so to speak with is become a best seller. It’s got a movie, it’s premiering, it’s airing around the world. This involves quite a bit of thing for you, as well. And with that fame, I would like to ask you what, how famous would you like to be? Would you like to be as famous and well known as, for example, Stephen King, where you lose the anonymity or would you like a different little thing?

Yeah, yeah. Like, I don’t know, I’d like to be relatively known course. But I don’t really know if I’d want to be Stephen King big. I feel like if I ever did become that big, I would definitely leave social media and recruiting, you know, I just cannot operate with that level of scrutiny of every word, I say. I probably have to just hire someone to handle the official social media accounts. So yeah, I guess I’d prefer to be this more relatively obscure, you know, well known enough to kind of have a reader base, of course, and attention for my work. But I just don’t think I want to be Mega Huge e though.

R
Okay, so it’s more like you, you want to have an audience, but you don’t want to be the center of attention.

A
Exactly. Exactly.

R
That makes sense. Because, you know, you want your stuff to be read. But you don’t necessarily want then people to try and seek you out personally for everything. Right. Yeah, definitely. I agree. Because that balance is valuable, keeping that anonymity to a certain level. Right.

A
Right.

R
That makes a lot of sense. And that is all the questions that I have for you today. That I’d like to thank you for coming on Anthony. And for talking with me today and being on the writers triangle.

A
Yeah, thank you for having me.

R
And thank you to all of our beautiful moms for listening. Be sure to buy Sair Back Sair Banes. And Anthony, Do you can you tell us where to find you on social media? Or an author’s website if you have one? Yeah.

My My Twitter handle is at Anthony, J. E n g e r one. And I’ve been kind of limiting my time on there lately, just for self care, which has been great, but that’s kind of my main social media. I also have an early neglected personal blog that you can find it raccoon alley, blog.wordpress.com. And then I technically also have an Instagram. I don’t really do anything on it. I’ve made virtually no posts yet somehow managed to get 32 followers on there. But, but so my handle on there is Anthony J Engebretson. If if you’re so inclined. So I might start doing things on there one day, not sure. And then that’s pretty much it. Like my Facebook is more personal, so I wouldn’t really bother with it.

R
Okay, yeah, maybe once the novella comes out, you could post that onto your Instagram to bring it back to life if you so choose. Yeah. For now, though, for all of you listening, be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com. Check out the transcripts. And we’ll also have the links to all the social media. And we thank you again for coming on today. Yeah, thank you. It’s been wonderful having you and I hope you have a good rest of your evening.

A
Yeah. I hope you have a good rest of your morning.