Episode 31: Kirstyn Petras Interview

R
Hello cinnabar moth are any kind of moth you’d like to be? Welcome to the rise triangle cinnabar moth podcast, but I think publishing and books today we’re here with Kirsten Pietrus, author of The next witness. Christian, how’re you doing today?

K
I’m doing just fine. How are you?

R
Okay, thank you for asking. Are you feeling excited about the release? Next witness? You’re on the third.

K
Yeah, I’m, I don’t know if excited is the right word. It feels like it’s been such a long time coming. Like I’ve been sitting on this story for so long. It’s this weird sense of anticipation mixed with, like overwhelming dread of like, oh my god, I’m finally letting my baby loose in the wild. Right. Like, it’s this weird combination. So I am really excited. But it’s also it’s, I don’t know, it kind of feels like pushing a baby bird out of the best thing. It’s gonna be okay.

R
Little bit of nervousness with it. Yeah, for sure. into the public eye. And what’s gonna happen? You don’t know.

K
Yeah, exactly.

R
It’s too late. Understandable. But I am sure that there will be at least some positive feedback. I think it’s one would hope. Yeah, yeah. You said that it’s been a work in progress for a while, how long ago did you start writing?

K
I wrote the first draft of this book when I was 15. Just about to turn 16. I’m 28. Now. So it’s been a while. And obviously, the book changed a lot. Like it’s not at all the same story. It’s been rewritten, completely shelved for like years at a time and then come back to and then scrapped and rewritten and whatever. But the basic tenets of the story are still the same. And I’ve gotten really close to some of these characters, because it has been such a process. So I listened to any, I would not recommend waiting this long to write a book to anybody else. But like, that’s just how this process worked. A while? Yeah, it’s a just under 13 years.

R
was quite a while. And I imagine that was a lot of lingering lot of changes, and a lot of evolutions as you also evolve your thoughts?

K
Well, I think a lot of it was my own life experience and my own education. So I don’t think it’s a secret. This book is a political thriller, I got really into politics when I was in high school about the time I started writing the book, and then did my undergraduate degree in International Relations, I did my graduate degree in global affairs. So all of those studies and all of those theories and all of that learning 100% influenced the story and influenced how my thought process of the story and the universe in which it’s exists changed. So I think the process was a lot of like, if you look at, I mean, this copy doesn’t exist anymore. But if someone was to be unfortunate enough to look at the first draft, compared to now, they would see someone who’s grown up, they would see 13 years of adulting, you know, like, it’s just so I don’t know, I feel like this process has been so unique. And that melody, one of the main characters really grew up with me, and her voice really grew up with me. So yeah.

R
For you, like you mentioned, this is your baby that really does feel like it’s something that’s grown with you and this is a baby that’s been a long time and crying out for a long time. Yeah. Would you say at the How was the process for you during the day? You’re going through it and writing it? Writing?

K
i Yeah. It’s been. Yeah, I think it’s not been. I’m trying to think of the right word for it feels like I’m living up to expectations like I am. That’s my own expectations, right. Like, that’s my own standard. But because this is, like I said, kind of related to what I studied. Like, I feel like I have to live up to the degrees to my name. Like, this is what happened. It was all taking lots of action, even though it doesn’t like it doesn’t have to be it’s just one of those. I want. Like I have these things saying like, I kind of know what I’m talking about. And I feel like my work has to say, oh, yeah, she does sort of know what she’s talking about this I said this is feasible, you know, so I don’t know if it was like painful or euphoric or happy or whatever it just kind of it. It was It felt necessary. Like, I don’t know, a version of myself that hasn’t always been writing a book, maybe not this one, but hasn’t always been writing a book. So, for me, it was like, the process just was, you know? I don’t know if that. Yeah,

R
you’re changing. So the book must change to

K
Yes, exactly. Exactly. That

R
pretty much just evolved with you. And as you kept evolving in ending, politics, and all of that it’s natural to be like, well, add this new perspective. I’m going to write in this.

K
Yeah, absolutely. Like how the universe got to how it was changed about three or four times. So I hope people find it relevant and realistic in today’s state. But I could also see in a couple of years, it will be like, what, what was she talking about? Like, that makes no sense. You know, things change so quickly.

R
Yeah, in modern modern times, things can evolve. And it may not feel as on topic, but I think that even with changes people who are into politics, we’ll be back and be like, Okay, I can see the time period. This was talking about commenting.

K
Yeah, yeah, I hope so. I really hope so. And especially because a lot of that wasn’t recent. So I feel like so when I was going through this process, and I was going through the edits. I had my sister helping me for a bit of it. And she was like, Oh, is this related to x event? Or oh, is that related to y event. And this was written five years ago. So I think that there is something to be said about. History is basically just a lot of history is the same problems repeating themselves over and over and over again, in like a different cloak, right. So I hope that there is some semblance of it will and the concepts will endure, even if the specific policies aren’t necessarily as realistic and a couple of years

R
that you’ve gone through this process with writing it. When you were done, all your take food for you to go from having this finalized, draft two actually going into a while.

K
It took a really long time. And a part of it was just so I finally finished the draft. And I sent the draft to everyone I knew who would possibly be willing to read it. And I got some good feedback off of it. But a lot of it was just like, Listen, you got to send it to somebody who’s not your friend. And I was not ready to do that. I was like, okay, so I finally found like, randomly found an indie publisher. There was a regular at a bar I was working at at the time. And I ended up here hurty had an anthology that my friend would have been like, he had a story that was perfect for so I end up sending my friend to that guy for the anthology, and then moved on because I had an end and was like, Hey, you published my friend. I have good taste, you should look at my book. And that started in 2018. So yeah, I think, and then it was kind of on and off. And a lot of the weight that was in 2018. I’m sorry, that was 2019. And then I think that kind of gave me the momentum. And then when we were all in quarantine at I had nothing else to do other than sit there with my artistic ambitions and no job was like, okay, so then yeah, that’s when the queering really started was during the pandemic.

R
So you had this initial, like, Okay, I’m actually gonna put it into the world. And you had that starting process, and then it really got kicked up during the pandemic. Yeah. Awesome. You discovered cinnabar moth. How did that happen?

K
Um, yeah. So during a CT towards the end of 2020, I was getting really frustrated because a lot of the feedback I was getting was basically people don’t want to read dark fiction in dark times. And same friend who I had sent, like said, like, hey, submit to this anthology, my friend Nathan. And I ended up starting our own podcast kind of based off of that feedback of just like, we think it’s ridiculous that people don’t want to read dark fiction in dark times. There’s always been a place for dark literature. And we ended up starting a podcast called dark waters and through dark waters, we ended up meeting a whole bunch of indie authors who are all so fantastic. And through that I was kind of introduced on Twitter to the indie publishing scene. And then I found you guys through that. So yeah, it was all I found you guys through Twitter. And through that process of just like, I know that there’s a market for this block, I just need to find who will take it. And thankfully you guys did.

R
Yes, that’s an interesting evolution, you start off from a podcast of type. A, why is nobody interested? is definitely readers out there. So ideas wrong? And then yeah. Find us on Twitter, and talk to us. What made you decide to actually publish with us?

K
I really liked your guy, the kind of ethos of cinnabar moth I liked, how you represented authors that you took authors from kind of all walks of life, all creative life, you publish all sorts of different things. And I was like, if anyone’s going to take this book, it’s probably going to be the publisher that’s very, very much wanting to represent diverse voices represent diversity and literature. And like, also, that’s just a company that I want to work with, like that’s a publisher that I want to proudly say that I’m a part of. So

R
makes me happy that you came to us and decided to, just because he he represent our literary world, as you all know, literate? sure that you find appealing. For sure. So use meant us and as Arabic knows, you’re now being published with us. But what was the surprising thing about this process of publishing with?

K
Honestly, I think it was the months of not having anything to do. And just and I was warned, like you guys had emailed me and been like, there’s not gonna be a lot to do for like, this chunk of time. And I was like, okay, and I think in my head, I didn’t really believe it. And then there’s just like, wasn’t a lot happening. And I was just anxious, being like, there’s got to be something I can do. There’s gotta be something I can do. There’s got to be something I could do. And yeah, basically, it’s just been this task kind of month or whatever, where we’ve been getting ready for publication that there’s that’s kind of been more of a whirlwind. So I think that it was just that anticipation. I wasn’t quite, I feel like my brain didn’t realize what was happening until it was happening.

R
Yeah, it’s something that can be a little bit strange, because you go through all this effort, right, this entire process of writing a book, which has its own kind of frantic energy to it. And even if it takes a while, but always when you’re in that writing or that energy for and then with finding a publisher to take it, there’s a bit of a grind.

K
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

R
And then once you’ve done that, then there’s the hurry up and get this part. And then there’s just this waiting process where it’s like, okay, well, there’s nothing to do.

K
And it’s literally nothing is not like, there’s actually nothing.

R
So pretty surprising for me when I wrote my book, like, Okay, I wrote it, but then I had this entire period of time where it so little was happening about it that I genuinely forgot I had written a book

K
and can’t like, just start being like, you can’t like start the publicity too early on Twitter too early on your social media, because then people are gonna get sick of it. It’d be like, I don’t even care by the time it comes out. So you have to pace that as well. But yeah, I think that was the most surprising thing was just like sitting, sitting and waiting and pretending like I’m patient.

R
That’s really difficult. That was the most surprising thing about policy in general, would you say the same thing about posting with us specifically that you found to be surprising or different from what you expected?

K
I don’t think anything apart from just like, though, the like waiting process. Yeah, I think that was the main thing. And I don’t know if that would be different with another publisher. I think one of the things that I really liked about working with you guys was having so much say on the cover, because I’ve heard it from both sides of people who are also working with indie publishers who have to like commission their own cover and just do it on their own. And then people who have no say, like might have like, be able to give some feedback but don’t have any say at all. So I think being able to We’ll have that kind of back and forth about the illustration. And I think it got a really good response once it was once it was shown. So I think that was one of the pros for me. And like one of the things I was, like, pleasantly surprised about, but um, yeah, I think mostly it was just the waiting.

R
That’s understandable waiting is not fun, and can be a bit nerve racking sometimes. Yeah, I’m most happy to hear that you were able to feel good about being involved in your cover process because of art can be very important. I think it’s a very important thing in general for books to have a cover that represents it. Well, and yeah, I think the author be happy with the cover of something that tell you a lot because it is after all, your baby.

K
Yeah, it’s a very personal thing for sure. So that was nice.

R
The next witness is coming out on next month, third, and so it’s release being so soon. Do you have any plans to celebrate the release of the next witness?

K
Yeah, my sister is actually throwing me a launch party. Her and the help of my friend Nicole are going to be throwing me a launch party at a bar down here in New York. And I’m really excited because I have a lot of friends that are like, Yeah, we want to come celebrate with you. And yeah, I think I’ve been told I’m gonna be forced to sign copies. And I’m like, Okay, if you if you want that, I guess. Like, I don’t know what to say to that. It’s like, thank you. Oh, yeah, I’m excited. It’s gonna be really fun. And it’s hopefully with like, obviously, this is all TBD with like how Coronavirus plans out plays out over the next couple of months. But the hope would be, it’d be really nice to have an excuse to celebrate with friends, like be all in one place, you know?

R
Yeah, I think that the pandemic of assault does kind of make that a little bit iffy. But if it’s possible, it’d be a nice break from being stuck by herself in a lot of ways. Absolutely. And you do have a valid reason to book being published is a big deal.

K
I think so.

R
And so, you mentioned that your sister is one planning to planning out this launch party, is that correct?

K
Yeah, yeah. Um, she and she’s the only one in my family who’s read the book. So I have not let them see it. And they won’t until it’s out. So my parents have pre ordered it. One of my uncle says, period, it’s on my cousins who pre ordered it. So I’m sure that they’re excited. But I was like, I don’t want you guys to read this until it’s like, out of my hands until like, it’s out in the world. And then, and then you can have thoughts.

R
So even with your family, you’re like this, my baby is too precious. I cannot show it to you.

K
It’s not that it’s that. Listen, my, okay, I’m not gonna let my sister listen to this recording until the book comes out. But she’s one of the people that the book is dedicated to, like she I am totally fine with sharing the story and sharing like my inner dark thoughts and all of the violence and everything else is in the story. But like there are see, like, there’s trigger warnings you guys put on this book for the art cover? Right? Like I don’t, I don’t know how I feel about before it’s out the world. My my parents reading like, certain scenes, certain characters, interactions with each other. I’m trying really hard not to spoil it. But like, it’s it’s a violent story. And I yeah, like I don’t know how you like it go. You know, like, there’s just a weird moment to be like, hey, family. Do you want to see how I like planned? These seems like, you know, it’s just a weird moment. So it’s not even like, I think they’d be weird about it or ashamed about it. It’s just it’s a very personal thing where it’s weird for me.

R
And so it’s just a matter of it’s going to, it’s eventually going to be available to them. Can’t stop that. Yeah, and yeah. Okay, well, yeah, that’s fine. I’m not sure that they’re excited for you, because you mentioned they have pre ordered and everything so

K
Oh, they’re super excited there. Yeah, yeah, for sure. There Sorry for interrupting you. Um, yeah, they’re super excited about it. My mom read I think the first version like the 15 year old version, that was like, I promise you it’s very different.

R
It’s better Okay, and so you have your, your parents who are and your sister and everybody who’s excited about this. And then the next witness is also going to be listed in the US Library of Congress. How does that feel?

K
That feels amazing. I was so excited when I heard the that was happening. Because when I was a kid, there, like I grew up in a real small town, and like going to the library and walking back home with like, a pile of books, with whatever my latest hyper fixation was. So I like one week, it was Egyptian mythology one month, it was like medieval literature, like, a lot of man, teachers, so many teachers, like the library was such a big part of my childhood. And like, I don’t know, if I want anyone under the age of 12 reading this book, but like, you know, it’s nice to know. It’ll be available to people like that’s, it’ll be just like an accessible option. Like that means a lot to me knowing how much the library influenced my education as a kid.

R
And for a lot of people that go into the library and having that experience, it’s a very defining like, memory, right. Yeah, absolutely. I think also, another thing with it being in the Library of Congress is that, in a sense, I Library’s kind of immortalized books, because they’re going to be around for a really long time if they’re in a library, right?

K
Yeah, yeah, it means that you can usually, like, even if it takes a second, you can find it again. So it’s nice to know that it will live on as it were.

R
Yeah, that’s, that’s very nice. And, and so with that, and with it being released, soon, it being Library of Congress, you have any hopes of by having what you would hope happens next.

K
I’ll be honest, a lot of my creative energy has been not as present lately. And I think it’s just the anticipation of the release. It’s been I was fortunate enough to work as a guest editor for a punk noir during another indie bag, doing a horror themed month with them, and works been just like crazy lately. So it’d be really nice to just kind of get back into that creative energy and like start really deep dive writing again, I have like, four different things that I want to work on. And that’s, that’s basically my hope is that once everything’s done and dusted, my like, that kind of inspiration comes back.

R
Okay, so the the process of like the waiting process, the anticipation, everything’s kind of got you distracted right now. But once it’s released, and out there, there’ll be an appeal, able to free up kind of that mental space to start working on the other projects that you have going on.

K
Exactly. Exactly.

R
And with even, you’ve mentioned that you have quite a few writing projects in mind. Ready? Are you thinking of wanting writing to be a career path for you?

K
I am very, very fortunate right now and that my current job allows me to write and it’s nonfiction writing, but it is still writing. And I think absolutely, if if at some point that transitions into writing novels and short stories becomes economically viable to be a career, that’d be amazing. But I think there is also that fear that once it becomes your career, it then is your job, right? So then there’s the pressure of like, oh, I have to get up and go to work today, meaning I have to get up and like, I have to do this workout or I can’t afford rent. So until if and when that is an option that I can do it and feel freedom within it. I’m okay with still having an outlet that is writing as my salary maker. You know what I mean? Like I think eventually it’d be great it’d be so just a dream come true to be like, my profession is I’m an author. But I also don’t hate where I’m at right now.

R
Like that’s a nice place to be where you’re comfortable with what you’ve got, but if this were to happen, you’re not gonna say know.

K
Exactly right. And like I do really like my job and I know a lot of people don’t have that luxury to say that they like their job, but my job allows me to kind of use the skills from my degrees while at the same time. I have the ability to still write and exercise the I mean, obviously I just said like not is very second, but most of the time, you still have the ability to exercise those creative muscles and kind of kind of have the best of both worlds.

R
And so going back to the next witness a little bit, if the next witness was to become a best seller, do you have any idea of what you do?

K
I’d faint. I don’t know what that what happens after that. But if someone was like, your books on the bestseller list, I would just drop to the floor. And then who knows? Who knows what happens after that?

R
So it’d be, it’d be a shocker.

K
Like, it’d be a dream come true. Absolutely. But I don’t in that moment, I don’t know what my actual reaction is. Like, Oh, hey.

R
Yeah, I think it’d be very exciting. But also, it’s not something that we necessarily imagine will happen. So if it does, it’s never really just like, oh, yeah, of course, it will be. It’ll be a best seller. Like,

K
yeah. Yeah, well, I think it’s that you walk into this process, at least my personal mantra of whatever regarding this has been walking this process and say, I want to share my art, I want to share what I’ve been working on, I want people to read the story and enjoy it. But you can’t necessarily walk in as a first time published author, and say, this is going to be the best book that was ever written. I’m gonna get reviews say this is the most prolific author since whoever like this is the best book since I don’t know some classical Russian dude, like, you have to go in with some sense of realism of do is this a good way for me to start this platform? Is this a good way to amplify my voice, but at the end of the day, I just want people to enjoy the story. And if that’s five people, great, and if that’s a million people, amazing, even better. But that’s, that’s all I want. It’s just for people to read the story and enjoy it. And hopefully, fingers crossed, it is it is successful. But I didn’t set I didn’t like send it to be published with the expectation of everyone will love it. And I’ll be famous within two months, you know?

R
Yeah, that makes sense. It’s always matter. We want art to be out there and then come like me, are it’s out there for people to Yeah,

K
or you’re just disappointed. Like, if if you’ve set out with that intention, and then it doesn’t happen. Like that’s just disappointment versus if you set out with the intention of just let me see, if people like what I do, then slightly better place to be.

R
Yeah, healthy expectations are very important if writing and I think with everything in life, right?

K
Yeah, absolutely.

R
And so going back to the concept of it being becoming a best seller, the next step for after becoming a best seller, for example, next witness becoming a movie or a TC TV series. If that were to happen, do you have any idea of who you’d want to potentially cast into certain roles? I honestly don’t know.

But I think I think what I would love if that happened would be I have I live in New York, I live in Brooklyn, and 99% of my friends, are performers are actors, or musicians or stunt doubles are involved in the creative scene in some way. So I don’t know if I’d want to like specifically cast anybody but I think it’d be really awesome to be able to give back to that part to like my people, right to like, my artistic friends and just have like, I don’t know, like somewhere the contract be like, people can email this person and be like, do you want to be an extra? Do you want to like, play a song? You want to do this? You want to do that? So I don’t know that? Would? I know that doesn’t quite answer your question. But that in my head is what my ideal scenario.

R
I think that makes sense. You have these friends who have been supportive through your process, who are just part of your life that you really enjoy. And, you know, give them the software and not another opportunity. That’d be a way for you to have them also be involved in a sense in your own art. Right? Because be your book being transitioned into a movie or TV show.

Yeah, and like, share the good fortune, right. Like if I’m fortunate enough that that happens. I would love to pass on that opportunity to someone else. Yeah.

R
So following up on that, if the next witness were to become a movie or TV series, would you prefer a movie or do you prefer a TV series?

I think TV series because you can kind of deep dive more into specific scenes you can add stuff in there’s not really as much pressure to take stuff out because you have more time. So I would say TV series but I mean either either spot So, in this scenario TV series

R
makes sense. I do think that I’ve watched quite a few movies that were adaptations from books and thought, why did they remove that thing, which they could have included this scene I am the worst

to watch a book to movie translation with because I will just get upset, I have a really hard time separating the two. So I feel like it’d be different if it’s my own book, because I just be so excited that it became anything. But yeah, as someone who is that critic, and it’s like, how did they cut this? How did they cut that I think, for my sanity to be saved, would have been a TV show.

R
And with it becoming a TV show, and going through that process, what level of creative control? Do you think you’d want over the adaptation and that entire thing?

Well, again, kind of going off of the realistic expectations. I think, if we’re talking like ideal scenario, I wouldn’t want to, I would have literally no desire to be in any writing room to be at Eddie, whatever. But I would like to look at the script and be like, Okay, fine. But in this like realistic expectation scenario, I, the only thing I would want is that, if this is a spoiler, please cut it out. But there’s one platonic, male female relationship in the book. And that would be the only thing or be like, you cannot make that anything more than that platonic, male female relationship, I want that represented, I want that on screen. That means a lot to me. And that is very essential to those characters, that that is platonic and not romantic. And I think that would be a big fear of mine, that they would try to turn that into some sort of chemistry that doesn’t exist, you know, that, and then what I’ve mentioned before, about having an opportunity to let other people and my artistic circle, be a part of it.

R
I mean, it’d be him. Just want to keep it true to your intentions with certain aspects of the story.

Yeah, yeah, just like be true to the characters and like, make sure that the people who make sure that the characters look the way that they are discussed in the books, right, so like, Derek Lin, should probably be agent, like,

R
probably. Right? Because that’s how the characters driving book. Keep it keep it to that. Exactly. Okay. That makes sense. And so let’s imagine that you’ve got this entire process with the next witness, it came about seller, it got a TV series, and you went through the entire process with the production and everything, and it’s finally coming out. Would you want to go to the premiere? And if you did, who would you take with you?

I would absolutely go to the premiere. And I would take my sister, she’s been such an essential part to this process, and just been such an ear when I needed it and been such a support system rock, I would love to take her and celebrate with

R
her. Think that sounds like it’d be awesome. Taking the person who’s been closest with you during this entire process to share that experience with you.

K
Yeah, she deserves it. You deserve Hollywood.

R
And so why up on this, this concept of it being extremely successful? And with the writing career and everything? Do you think that you’d want to become extremely famous and well known, for example, like Stephen King, or where he lost kind of last year and empty as well? Or what level of fame would you want? If you were to achieve that level of success?

I don’t know if I’d want like a Stephen King comparison. But I think if we’re going with like fantasy, whatever. I would like a certain level of notoriety, I would like how do I Okay, there’s a story that I’m sure my friends are very tired of hearing. So if anyone of my friends is this thing of this or the Jeff VanderMeer story, you can skip over this part. But um, back in 2015, no, 2014 Sorry. An author named Jeff VanderMeer released three books in a year. And he had a panel at the Edinburgh Book Festival, which held a special place in my heart. I went there a lot of years. And I had the first two books, acceptance and authority. And then the third book, I’m sorry, annihilation in authority. And then the third book acceptance was being released, like pre released at the festival. And he was doing a signing afterwards. So I was kind of nervous because the second book authority had lived in my backpack, all summer. And it seemed better days, went off to him. And was asking him to sign it into like signs, acceptance or follow me signs and I wish no problem. He looks at the second book, and he just looks at me looks back at the book and says, are you mad at me? I was like, yes, you promised the answers and you didn’t give me answers and you just lost it. He was laughing so hard. And I just, I would love to be that person for somebody, you know, like, I would love to be someone’s author that writes their signature in a book and they just get so excited whenever they hear this story. So whether that’s like Stephen King level, or that’s like it like I don’t know, like a Stephen Gould, indie author level, like, I mean, all respect to Stephen Gould. He’s amazing. But you know what he’d be like, I just want that I want to be someone’s favorite writer.

R
For free, it’s less about the fame and more a matter of being able to have someone enjoy your work that much.

K
Yeah, exactly.

R
I think that makes sense. But with that would, would you worry? Or would you care at all about reaching level of fame? Where you, for example, last gen and MD where people would recognize you on the street? Or would that be something that you would just enjoy? If it happened? What would be your feelings about that type of thing?

I think I just enjoy it. Like, enjoy it. If it happens, if someone catches a picture of me walking out of a gym, just be like, I don’t know, I feel like you have better things to do with your day, but like, okay, yeah, I don’t I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t mind. That’d be that’d be kind of cool. If someone was like, Hey, you wrote that big? Like, yeah, like, I don’t know. It feels like to a certain extent, like if people start, like following me around, that gets a little creepy. But if people knew me that that’d be kind of cool.

R
Yeah, that makes sense. I don’t think anyone really likes being followed around. But I think that it can be enjoyable to have people recognize us, because they appreciate our work.

K
Yeah. 100%.

R
And so thank you, Kirsten, for coming on to the podcast and talking with me today and being on the writers triangle. Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time. And thank you for writing the next witness, which is coming out on the Third of May 2022. And thank you to all of our beautiful moms for listening. Be sure to buy the next witness when it comes out or preorder if you’d like. And now, Christian, where can we find you? Do you have social media links that you might be able to share with the people?

K
Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Kirstyn underscore Petras. Or you can find me on Instagram at Gotham City Aereo.

R
And for all of our listeners, please be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com where you can find the transcripts and we’ll have links to questions social media as well. Kirsten, thank you for talking with me today.

K
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

R
I hope you have a good rest of your evening. Bye bye