Episode 49: Dana Hammer Author Interview

R
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth, you’d like to be welcome to the Writer’s Triangles, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Dana Hammer, author of The Cannibals Guide To Fasting. Dana, how are you doing today?

D
I’m doing great. How are you?

R
I’m doing good. Thanks for asking. So are you feeling excited about the release of the cannibals guide to fasting?

D
I’m super excited. Yes.

R
How long ago? Did you start writing? Or did you finish writing? The cannibals guide to fasting?

D
Yes. So that’s kind of a hard question to answer. Because I think it was like 2012. When I first got the idea for it. I wrote a short story about a heavily tattooed cannibal who likes to press wildflowers. And from there, it just kind of kept growing and growing. And then I wrote the first full novel, like in 2016, or something like that, and it wasn’t great. So I just kind of put it aside. And then during the pandemic, I decided I would pick it back up again and rewrite it. And so I guess it took several years to write it. But really, most of that time, I was not actually writing it. So.

R
Okay, so that’s an idea that I did a long time ago. But then it just took a while to actually be something that you’re actively working on. Right? Back of the mind. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And for that process, what would you say that process was like for you is starting and stopping, picking it back up?

Well, I actually started it while I was on a writer’s retreat with my writers group. So it was just an idea that I had, and I sort of passed it around the group and said, Hey, would you write Would you read a story about this guy? Do you think he’s a compelling character, and I got some feedback on it. Mostly people were pretty positive about it. And then I wrote the first draft, and I workshop that with some friends, also from the same writers group, they had some pretty good suggestions about how to improve it, some of which I took some of which I didn’t. And, yeah, 2020 I was just stuck in the house. And so I just hunkered down and rewrote the whole thing. Okay.

R
So it wasn’t really would you say that process was difficult for you? Or was it pretty smooth overall,

it was difficult to, to make some of the more painful changes. You know, there’s always characters you write or you get kind of attached to, there are scenes who you are scenes that you really don’t want to cut, because there’s so much fun to write and read. And, but in the end, every scene has to serve a purpose in the book. And sometimes you have to be ruthless and get rid of characters and scenes that you would rather keep. But I always comfort myself that I can poach them and use them for something at a later date.

R
So and it’s true, yeah. You have all these characters, you grow to love them. And then you have to be like, okay, you don’t fit. I’ll use you later. I promise. It’s okay.

This just isn’t your place. You’ll come up later. Right?

R
So you went through this process with Ryan and cannibals guide to fasting and then when about what time? Would you say that you finished it?

D
2020 I think is when I finished the final draft of it.

R
Okay, then after that you what was did you decide that you wanted to publish it and start looking for publishers?

Yeah, pretty much used duotrope. I don’t know if anyone’s familiar with that. But it’s basically like a service that lists different markets that publish things. And so I started looking around for a publisher who might be interested in it. And I sent it to one publisher who thought it was a good book, but it wasn’t the sort of thing that they published, they published more like mysteries. In my, my book isn’t really a mystery. So he actually referred me to you and cinnabar moth and you guys liked it. So that was great.

R
Okay, so you had you discovered us through a recommendation from a different publisher. And what made you decide in the end to publish with us?

I loved how you were, there was a nice personal touch with you guys. You reached out and you were kind and you had good suggestions and you seemed like you really knew what you were doing. And yeah, I was really excited to work with you. Okay,

R
that’s, that’s makes me happy to hear and I’m sure the rest of the team will be happy to hear that as well. And this process of publishing with us, what would you say has been the most surprising thing um,

I don’t know, honestly, I don’t have a good answer for that question. Um, oh, I think it’s been surprising because I’ve been sending out some advanced reader copies to people. And it’s been surprising how like, eager people are to help and and how much people want to read the book. I think like, as a writer, you’re always kind of worried that people, you know, secretly don’t like you, or they secretly don’t want to read your stuff. But people have been really enthusiastic about wanting to read the book and read a first draft, and they’ve been really supportive. And I think that speaks to the horror community and how awesome they are. And I’ve been really surprised in a very good way it how enthusiastic people are about the book. So that’s been great.

R
Okay, so your surprise has been the level of acceptance and how open people are to your writing?

Yeah, like I, I’ll say, Hey, I’ve got an advanced reader copy, you want to read it? And then someone will say, Sure. Do you also want me to do a write up for my magazine? Sure. Do you also want to be on my podcast? And I’m like, Yes, please, thank you. Let’s get really nice.

R
It does sound like a very positive experience. I’m glad that you’re having this positive experience with the release of the cannibals guide to fasting. And speaking of its release, it’s right around the corner. Now, how do you plan on celebrating it?

That’s a good question. I’m trying to convince my husband that we need to go up to Vichy hot springs up in Northern California. There’s like a resort where you can supposedly the hot springs are like carbonated. So I think that I want to go and like, sit down under the stars, with a glass of champagne and a carbonated water and celebrate my release, but we’ll see.

R
Okay, so you haven’t quite convinced him to sign up with the idea. But that’s what you’re hoping for.

That’s what I’m hoping for the resorts a little spendy. But it’s fine. I think I’ll convince him.

R
Would you say your family and your husband has been excited about the release of the book?

Yeah, I think so. Unfortunately, my husband is not much of a reader. And it’s an adult book. So my daughter can’t read it either. So but I think they’re excited for me. And they, they’re very happy that I’m happy.

R
Okay, that’s always nice. It is a bit unlucky, but he’s not much of a reader. Right. And I think that happens sometimes, you know, not all of us read, even if we enjoy stuff and enjoy the people, the things that people in our lives are doing. It’s just not really for us. Yeah. But it sounds like he has been supportive anyway. And I think that, that’s always wonderful to have that support from family.

D
Honestly, that’s the most important thing to me, so.

R
And with it being released, there’s a lot of things that come with publishing a book, and there’s a lot of things that come with a book coming out. One of those things is being listed at or in libraries and being available via libraries. How does it feel to know that your book will be listed in the US Library of Congress?

That feels awesome. I love that. I think that that’s, you know, that’s what every author wants. And I’m very excited for that to be happening for me

R
is being listened library congressman, for you person, do you have a connection with libraries at all with your history? Or is it something that’s just kind of there?

Oh, I love libraries growing up, of course, they have a connection with you know, I lived in a fairly rural community and I wasn’t too close to the library. So when I got to go, it was a very big event. It was really exciting. And I can remember spending a lot of time, you know, reading bizarre things like ghost hunting books and things that maybe weren’t, weren’t super appropriate for kids. I liked a lot of horror books, a lot of a lot of adult novels. But those were all really good memories. And I love the idea that someone could go into a library and pick up my book and maybe have those same kinds of memories.

R
So you have this, these positive memories, libraries, and hopefully, people pick up the Campbell’s guide to fasting they’ll have their journey to the library like you had. Yeah, and be able to say this book is something I remember fondly from, you know, my teenage years or, or something. Right. And so, it’s going to be published. It’s about to come out this upcoming Tuesday. And what do you hope how comes next.

I hope that it successful I hope that as many people read it as, as possible, and I hope that people really enjoy it and relate to it. And yeah, I just kind of want to, I want to see it fly and take wings and the success

R
so on on that concept of success, what is success for you?

Success for me means being respected for what I do. It’s not necessarily like I don’t really want to be famous ever. I don’t really care about that, but I want people to, to respect me as a writer and feel that I’m good at it. And I want people to buy my books.

R
Okay, so you are wanting writing to be a career for

you? Absolutely. Okay.

R
And so this is kind of the one of the steps along that journey towards writing as a career.

D
Absolutely.

R
Following up on that, that idea of success, if the cannibals guide to fasting were to become a, let’s say, best seller, what would you do?

Well celebrate, I guess, and yeah. Maybe send some copies to people who didn’t like my writing back in the day? I don’t know.

R
So it’d be like, hey, remember me?

D
Yeah, kind of a big deal.

R
So follow up on this idea of success, you know, potential bestseller. And then from there, if books really popular, it can potentially become a movie or a TV series. If the cannibals to fasting were to become a movie or TV series. Do you have ideas of who you’d want to cast in that potential production?

I do. So for Igor, I would have to be like a very big bodybuilder type guy like the John Cena type. Or maybe like The Rock maybe one of those former pro wrestlers turned actor and for Esteban Zappa. I would like the guy who plays the most interesting man in the world. You remember those commercials? The beer commercials, the most interesting man in the world? A bit? Yeah. The guy who plays that he’s Esteban Zappa. And Helen, I would like maybe Mindy Kaling to play, Helen. I think that would be kind of cool. Um, I don’t have any strong opinions about who would play Ellie. I think Dr. Tran, Ali Wong would be good. Um, let’s see. Yeah, those are kind of my main. The main main ideas.

R
Okay, so that sounds like you’ve got a decent idea of how all these characters sort of look and how you’d want them to feel when they’re being portrayed on the screen. Most of them, yeah. Okay. Good. You have a preference between a movie or TV show for the cannibals guide to fasting.

You know, it’s funny, you should ask I actually did. Because I’m also a screenwriter. And I did write up a pilot for the cannibals guide to fasting just the first episode, thinking that maybe it could be like a fun limited series. I do think that it lends itself pretty well to a series. As opposed to a movie, I’m not sure that you could fit everything into a movie and still have it. carry all of the points and all of the details that I mean, I guess that’s a problem. Anytime you’re adapting something to a movie, right? You’re gonna have to leave a lot of stuff out. But I would love to see it on either the big or the small screen. Okay,

R
so from your perspective, with everything that goes on with the writing of in the book, and all the different bits and pieces, that TV show, it lends itself a lot more towards adapting that effectively.

I think so. And I think that you could even do, you could move it’s like, like The Handmaid’s Tale, you know, where you could move on past it and delve deeper into some of the backstories of the tertiary characters. It’s, it’s an interesting world. And I think there’s a lot more to explore in it than I have done in just this novel. And I think either I’m gonna have to write another novel or maybe a television show would be a good way to extend it and explore some of the other areas. For instance, I think that it would be really cool to see what it’s like Inside the the rehab centers, the cannibal rehab centers, I think that that in and of itself could be like a whole show. Kind of like ratchet.

R
Okay, and so let’s imagine that it were to become a TV show, you mentioned that you do is screenwriting as well, would you want to have a high level of creative control in the process?

Oh, I would love that. That would be my dream. I mean, I understand that that’s not how it works, that sometimes you don’t get a say in it, but I would love it if I could be part of that process. Absolutely. Yeah. And

R
if you weren’t part of that process, would you want to the actual screenwriting? Or do you want to be more? A consultant for what? What level? exactly would you be looking for?

Um, I would like to do the actual screenwriting. But I do understand that, you know, with filmmaking in particular, it’s a collaborative process. It’s not like a novel. So it does help to have other eyes on it and other perspectives. And I, I’m not so arrogant as to think that no one else could bring a fresh perspective and improve it. So I would be open to working with someone else or acting as a consultant. But um, you know, the egoist in me wants to have full control.

R
So you, ultimately, you’d want to be able to control everything, but you recognize Hey, that’s, that’s a little bit unrealistic. Here. Let’s reel it back.

D
Yeah.

R
Let’s not imagine it’s gone through this entire process, right? It gave my best seller went on to a TV show went through the entire production process. And it’s now ready to come out it, would you want to go to the premiere? And if you do go to the mirror, who would you want to take with you?

Of course, I would want to go to the premiere. That’s like, that would be like the height of my career, I think. And I don’t know who I mean, of course, I would take my husband. I think that that’s, you know, the ideal date, but you know, then we have to pay for a babysitter so that yeah, no, I would take my husband, I would take my husband. Okay.

R
So you take your husband hire a babysitter for the kid.

I’m sticking with that. Okay, as the director.

R
You mentioned before, that you don’t really want necessarily want to become famous. But when it comes to getting a best seller and ending up with a TV show and everything, there is a certain level of fame that does come with that, right? Sure. What level of fame would you feel that you’re comfortable with? Would you like to be as famous as for example, Stephen King, where you lost your anonymity?

See, and sometimes I think that that would be wonderful, right? To be like this highly recognized writer, I can go into a bar and have free drinks and people will be super nice to me no matter what, but I’m not someone who likes a lot of scrutiny. You know, sometimes I say insensitive things, sometimes I dress badly. You know, it’s, um, so I guess if I would, I would accept it, and I would be happy about it. But I would have to level up my style a little bit and learn how to be a little more sensitive. Okay,

R
so you’re okay with if it happens, that’s not necessarily your preference, would that be correct?

It’s not my goal. I would, I do want to have a lot of money. All of the money without the fame that would be ideal. That’s really the goal is to make a huge amount of money. But if people don’t recognize my face that I’m okay with that.

R
Okay, so the the fame you’ll you’ll take it or leave it if it happens, it happens. But you’re wanting to be able to have financial success from your writing being popular and people enjoying what you do. For sure. So you’ve mentioned that money is the goal, would you say that the your writing is oriented toward you try to orient your writing towards trying to be popular with readers or you think about that a lot during your writing process?

Well, that’s what a smart writer would do. But no, unfortunately, I just write whatever pops into my head and whatever is fun for me to write. I think that every time I’ve tried to write something for like, for someone else, or something that fits into someone else’s mold, or tried to emulate another writer or tried to please others, it comes out there very badly. Yeah, it almost sounds like I’m making fun of what I’m trying to write. And yeah, it’s just not how I, how I write. Unfortunately,

R
I think that that style, having your own style, and being able to produce your own voice is very important with writing. Right? That’s what separates you from other writers.

D
Thank you. That’s what I hope other people.

R
Yes, I think that’s every writer’s hope is to be able to say I have my own unique voice. And everybody loves my writing, because it’s my voice. And it’s me, right?

D
That’s the ultimate goal. Yep.

R
So you said that you write what’s fun for you and what pops into your head? Would you say that your writing process is a bit all over the place? Or do you once you get an idea in your head, you stick with it, and you just keep writing that one story.

So I have actually like a notebook full of ideas and characters, and just little little tidbits. And sometimes I’ll go to that if I’m stuck. And I need to, like, add something interesting or something different to what I’m writing. But I find that it’s not a great idea to go to the list. For my primary inspiration. I think typically what I write is the ideas that won’t go away, the ones that keep on popping into my head over and over again, the things that I don’t need to put on a list, you know what I mean? Like the things that I just, I have to write it in, it has to get out.

R
Okay, so you have kind of this core of things that you’re constantly thinking of this would be really cool to write that you go to as your first step. And then you if you’re going through that process of writing out that story, fleshing it out, you’re like, I need a little bit of extra, you have a list that you go back to, to kind of jog your, your mental process and your writing process a little bit.

Yeah, like if it starts to get a little bit dull, or if I start to feel a little unexcited by the plot, I can go to my list and say, Oh, what if I added a knife thrower? You know, something like that.

R
I mean, knife throwing is very exciting.

D
I will give you that trimming is the best.

R
Yeah, I’ve never actually experienced a knife throwing performance in person. I’ve seen videos in such a way that I’ve never experienced it myself.

One of my goals is to learn how to throw a knife really well. I want to be like one of those really cool. Bill, the butcher from gangs in New York where I can just like throw it and hit a target and super badass Sunday when I don’t have a small child around the house

R
when Sunday when it’s safe to have a bunch of knives.

D
Exactly.

R
That makes sense. Yeah, I do think that having that as a hobby when you have a small child, children are a little bit too inquisitive for their own good a lot of the time. Yeah.

D
All the emergency room visits and whatnot add up.

R
And so, Dana, I’d like to thank you for talking with me today and beyond the rightest triangle.

D
So much for having me.

R
Thank you for writing the wonderful book that is the cannibals guide to fasting. And thank you to all of our beautiful moms for listening. Be sure to buy like animals guide to fasting coming up this coming out this upcoming Tuesday, September 6 2022. You know, why don’t you tell everybody, listeners as well as me where we can find you.

Okay, you can find me on my website, which is www dot Dana hammer.com. I’m also on Facebook at Dana hammer author page. And I don’t really use Twitter or Instagram because I’m old and lame. But if you want to find me on either of those other two platforms, I’m there.

R
On Twitter, are you at Dana hammer?

D
I am not on Twitter. Okay.

R
Not at all. Okay.

D
No, I tried it once. It wasn’t my thing.

R
That makes sense. I think I personally also struggle with Twitter. I have one. But I I don’t use it. I might as well not have.

Yeah, it seems like it’s just people being mean really fast.

R
I think that there’s different communities in Twitter. I’ve some people have had very positive experiences with it. I personally did not, you know, it’s not for everybody. But for everybody who’s listening now currently, you can find in a hammer at the aforementioned website and Facebook. And be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com to check out the transcripts and we’ll also have the links to data hammers social media. Dana, once again, thank you for talking to me today. It’s been a pleasure.

Thank you and bye Bye bye