Episode 4: C.W. Allen Author Interview
R:
Hello, Cinnabar Moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be. Welcome to the Writer’s Triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today, we are here with C.W. Allen author of Relatively Normal Secrets. C.W. Allen, how are you doing?
C.W.:
Wonderful. Thanks for having me on.
R:
It’s a pleasure to have you. So Relatively Normal Secrets is due to be released on September 7th, 2021. Are you feeling excited about the release of the book?
C.W.:
Absolutely. This is my debut novel, so I’m just thrilled to be able to finally get my words out in the world.
R:
It’s always a very exciting thing. So with Relatively Normal Secrets, how long did it take for you to write it?
C.W.:
Yeah, there was kind of an interesting process for this book. So I have written other novels that I was able to complete in about nine months, but this one all told, took about six years. It was three to write it and then three more to find a publishing home for it. And the reason it took three years to write is because I took a bunch of hiatuses in the middle. So I began writing it and then moved to a fixer upper house that was basically a derelict house that my husband and I were salvaging and so I took some time off from writing to work on that. Had my third child, so took a maternity leave. And then when we fixed up that house, we sold it and moved again. So I had three separate points where I had to take large breaks from writing, so that’s why the whole process of the writing took about three years.
R:
Yeah. It sounds like it was quite a journey to go from, start to finish there, a lot was happening.
C.W.:
It really was. Yeah.
R:
And what was that process like for you overall?
C.W.:
It was very much a learning process of just learning what my writing voice sounded like and the kinds of things I both wanted to write about and making sure that those things would be relatable to the readers. I think a lot of people that write for kids think that they have some lesson they want to teach kids. And I don’t write that way, I want kids to recognize things in my books that they already know are true, rather than me giving them a lecture. So it was a bit of process to just find the balance between what I wanted to say and what my writing voice sounds like.
R:
Okay. So you would say it was very much a discovery process for how to express what’s already inside.
C.W.:
Yeah, definitely.
R:
Okay. And would you say that process was particularly like difficult for you? You had said previously that you had some other books that you’ve written pretty quickly, but then this one took quite a while. Would you say that process was a bit painful or how would you describe it?
C.W.:
I wouldn’t say painful, but definitely was like eating an elephant one bite a time. To write an entire book in small chunks every day over a long period of time is definitely a process. And to be able to believe in the end when you’re only at the beginning. So, I mean, it’s a joyful process, of course, I enjoy writing, but it definitely takes some perseverance.
R:
That makes Sense. You mentioned that it took about… You said it was three years to find a publishing home and you landed with us at Cinnabar Moth publishing. How did you discover Cinnabar Moth?
C.W.:
It was completely by coincidence or maybe serendipity if you believe in such things. So it was on Twitter, I had recently joined Twitter because I had submitted a different book to a mentorship contest and they kind of required all their applicants to have a Twitter account and I was not selected for that. But now I was new to Twitter and following all these other writers and there was a pitch contest going on where writers would summarize their book in the small number of characters that will fit in a tweet and literary agents or publishers could indicate interest in that for them to send it in. So I was looking over other writers tweets because I was not participating and saw some that looked really good to me, that I thought sounded like fascinating stories and Cinnabar Moth liked one of those tweets, indicated that they would like to see that book, so that was my first introduction to them.
C.W.:
I started following their accounts after that. And then it was a bit further down the road when I looked over their webpage more, I noticed that they had an upcoming young adult novel and so I thought, oh, okay they don’t publish just adult things, maybe they would be interested in the middle grade novel as well. And so I decided to send it in.
R:
Okay. So it was kind of an investigative process for you for a little bit. You noticed us and then took a little bit of time to actually follow through with reaching out to us.
C.W.:
Yeah, I would say probably from the first time I was aware of the publishing house till the time I sent it in was probably three weeks or so. That took some time to just kind of read the kinds of things that they seem to be interested in and the way they interact with the public. I was really impressed with how personable everybody seems.
R:
Well we’re glad that we could create that positive vibe for you to feel comfortable with submitting to us. And what made you decide to finally after submission and going through that process to actually choose to publish with us?
C.W.:
So for people that are not writers, they may not know that the publishing process is kind of fraught with rejection. You have to have a very thick skin and so I wasn’t expecting very much when I sent it in, I thought that it would take a long time to get an answer. And I knew that the answer was statistically likely to be no, and that’s okay. That’s not a reflection of my writing, just whether it’s a good fit for that publisher. But I got an answer very quickly, I think it was in about 24 hours. And so I contacted Cynthia Mcdonald who has a young adult novel coming out with Cinnabar Moth this year and asked what her experience with the publisher had been like. And she just had a glowing review about how warm and personable her experience was and how professional everyone was, so I decided to take the plunge.
R:
Well, we’re certainly glad that you decided to take that plunge with us and we’re very excited to be publishing Relatively Normal Secrets. And this process of going through publishing with Cinnabar Moth publishing class, what would you say has been the most surprising thing for your experience so far?
C.W.:
I really had to unlearn a lot of things that I had been told about what the publishing process would be like having read blog articles and things written by literary agents or other publishers. I had gone into this with the idea that it would be very hands-off, that they would acquire the rights and just take it from there and I would have nothing more to do with it other than giving interviews when requested but that it would no longer be my book, it would be the publisher’s book. And that has not been my experience at all, but I’ve been asked for my input every step of the way, for audio book narrator and cover art and all kinds of things. Cinnabar Moth always wanted to make it still be my book and to both provide their professional perspective on what’s going to work best, but to try to mesh that with my tastes and my opinions and I really appreciated that.
R:
And so you felt like you’d been involved in the entire process and that was different than your expectation of just you end up being a spectator to your own book’s publication processes, is what you expected?
C.W.:
Absolutely. Yeah. I was told that I needed to not expect to be very involved and I’m pleased that I have been able to.
R:
And so that’s with publishing with us but then with the actual process of publishing the book you said there’s has been one thing that’s simply been very surprising about the publishing process itself with the book and getting it out into the market.
C.W.:
I guess I’ve been surprised at how quickly it’s possible to do it. There are so many people involved in bringing a book to market, artists and typesetters and editors and so many people have to have their hands in the pie, so to speak. And I’ve just been amazed at how quickly all of that was able to come together. With many major New York houses they announce their books two or three years in advance, and this has gone much more smoothly.
R:
Okay. And with the book being published soon as September 7, how do you plan to celebrate the release once it’s finally out? Do you have any plans in mind?
C.W.:
I haven’t actually made any plans. I suppose I’ll take a day off writing, but just one. I love writing and I want to get right back to it.
R:
Would you say that your family has been very excited about the book’s release as well?
C.W.:
Definitely. Two of my three children are in the target audience for the book. And so they’ve been really excited to see this thing that I’ve been working on finally, be a real book that they’ll be able to find on bookshelves and in libraries and on Amazon and things like that. They’ve been just thrilled.
R:
Yeah. I can imagine with children, especially with the book that they would probably be excited to read, it being their parent who’s released it, it’s just like, wow, this is amazing. So with the books release, there’s also the process of getting it out into libraries. How does it feel to have Relatively Normal Secrets be listed in the United States Library of Congress?
C.W.:
I am just so honored. That is a fulfillment of a childhood dream. Even today, much of the reading I do is within the middle grade space. And the library is where I find the books that I fall in love with and want to go buy my own copy of, to take home. And so I’m just thrilled to be able to contribute to that body of work.
R:
And so you’d say that the library has kind of been close to your entire experience with the literary world?
C.W.:
Yes, absolutely. From childhood on up the library is a very special place in my heart and I’m just thrilled that my work is going to be found in libraries.
R:
We’re also very excited about it as well because the Library of Congress and being able to get it to libraries where I thought more accessibility to people who may not even have the opportunity to hear about it otherwise.
C.W.:
Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s kind of a misconception that libraries are just for people that can’t afford to buy books or that authors would be disappointed to have somebody check it out from a library instead of buy a copy. And I am just thrilled with, however, anyone finds my work. Libraries are such an important function for a society that just goes far beyond making books available to people who couldn’t afford them otherwise. And like I said, I always vet books I’m planning to buy at the library first to make sure that I really do want to bring my own copy home.
R:
And so Relatively Normal Secrets is coming out in September 7th and then what do you hope happens next? And it’s going to be released and then what are your hopes or expectations perhaps?
C.W.:
Well, my dream would be to have the people that are interested in reading my book, which many of which will be children, be able to find it. I think I would have just made it as an author if kids start sending me fan art or if somebody wanted to dress up as one of my characters for Halloween or write a book report about it. That would just be the pinnacle of achievement for me.
R:
That does sound like a very exciting thing to have kids be excited about your work to the point that they would do that type of thing. I remember when I was a kid, I had a lot of experiences similar to that where I really, really loved certain stories and that inspired me. And so sharing that inspiration does sound like a very fantastic goal to have.
C.W.:
Yeah. That would be incredibly fulfilling.
R:
You mentioned before that you love writing and you’re going to keep doing it. Are you hoping or planning to have writing be your career path?
C.W.:
Yes, definitely. Kind of one of my deepest darkest fears is that I won’t have enough time to write all the stories I want to write. I have an incredible backlog of outlines of stories I want to write someday, but I have to take it one book at a time. I can’t start seven of them and never finish any. So I plan to just keep at it and keep bringing stories out into the world.
R:
I’m sure everybody will be very excited to hear and read the new stories that you put out as you create more. Returning back a little bit to Relatively Normal Secrets though. If Relatively Normal Secrets were to become a best seller, which is something that has an exciting concept, what do you think you’d do once it’s become bestseller? Would you celebrate it or?
C.W.:
Yeah. I would be thrilled about that mostly because it would mean that anybody who might enjoy the book will have heard of it. I think people that are not in the publishing world sometimes have this misconception that publishing is fame and fortune. And I really feel the opposite about it, that it’s almost like this superhero secret identity kind of profession, that my words can be out in the world, but not necessarily me as a person.
R:
And so for you the exciting concept is that you’re reaching the world, even though you’re not necessarily going out in the world yourself to do so.
C.W.:
Absolutely. Yeah. So that would be the major perk of bestseller status. Is that anybody who might be interested in the book will have heard of it and be able to access it.
R:
And following up on that concept of reaching more people and having more people experience the stories that you’re trying to share, if Relatively Normal Secrets were to become a movie or a TV series, that’d be another of reach out to people. And with that, do you have an idea of the types of people that you’d like to eventually cast into a movie or TV series for Relatively Normal Secrets?
C.W.:
I don’t and I think when people have celebrity casting list in mind, they’re thinking of very well-known actors and I would love to see someone really break into the market that hadn’t been heard of before. One of the things I love about the world is that it’s so diverse that it brings together kind of a clash of different cultures. And so I would love to see that experience replicated in the casting, to have a very diverse group and hopefully get some people that were unknowns.
R:
And so you’d hope to see some very clear representation as well as give this opportunity for people to grow while representing your story?
C.W.:
Absolutely. Because I’m so thrilled with the opportunity I’ve had to be able to break into the market and have my talents known. And I would love to be able to pass that experience onto an actor to not have to already be a big name to make an impact.
R:
That sounds… That’s very true. And with the play up on the movie or TV series, I’m guessing you… Would that be something that you’d want or is that something that if it happened you’d accept it? Or what are your feelings about that concept of a movie or TV show?
C.W.:
Yeah. I think Relatively Normal Secrets would be very well-represented in some visual form, just because of how the world’s building. I feel like the world is kind of Lord of the Rings plus Star Wars minus Wizards in Space. It has this very… I don’t know, it hasn’t been usual visual quality to it that brings together the modern and the futuristic and the medieval. And so I think that would be really well represented visually. I would love for it to become a movie or a TV series.
R:
And so your vision of it is the experience of visually representing these kind of separated aspects all in one and seeing that merged on the big screen or on TV?
C.W.:
Yeah. So much of the word count I had to put into the book was just describing these things that are different than the world as we know it. And through a movie or TV series, they would be able to communicate all of that through casting and through costuming, and through set design, props. All these ways that can convey that feel of the world in an instant, without having to do all the description that I had to do for a written medium.
R:
Yeah. They do say that a picture is worth a thousand words and movies and such really do prove that based off of just how much length you have to put in when writing to describe something that you can just see.
C.W.:
Yes, exactly.
R:
And let’s say that Relatively Normal Secrets did become a movie or a TV show and was going to be released, how much creative control do you think you would want in that process?
C.W.:
Not very much, I don’t think. I would want to make sure that the casting felt true to the characters. I really feel like the characters are people that I got to know rather than people I created. So I would want to make sure that the people cast in the main roles felt true to the characters as I knew them, but I understand that movies have different needs than books do. I feel like sometimes when we’re real fans of a book, we want to see the movie or the TV version of it represent every aspect completely authentically, but I don’t think that’s really possible. I think visual storytelling and written storytelling just have different needs and I would be okay if there needed to be some changes to make that process happen. And I would trust that experts in that field would know how to do it best. So other than casting, I think I would be pretty hands off.
R:
So your main concern would just be making sure the people representing the people in the book felt like they were true to your vision?
C.W.:
Yes.
R:
Okay. And so following up on this concept of Relatively Normal Secrets coming out and being in that visual medium, there would be a premiere and would you imagine that you’d want to go to the premiere? And if you did, would you have a specific outfit that you’d be planning on wearing or something along those lines that you’d want to bring with you?
C.W.:
Yeah, I would definitely want to go. Writing doesn’t lend itself to dressing up fancy very often. Maybe like a split front ball gown with trousers underneath. I’ve been seeing some red carpet people do that, that can be kind of fun.
R:
Okay. And so with it becoming a movie or a TV show that would also probably include quite a bit of fame with it as well, even like a bestseller would have a decent amount of fame to it. Do you have a sick image of the amount of theme that you’d want to have? Would you want to be as famous as for example, Stephen King or would you prefer to have a bit more of a subtle amount of fame? Do you have a sick level that you’d like to reach as an author?
C.W.:
Yeah. I would like for people to be able to know my work, but not know me as a person. One of the reasons that I publish under my initials rather than under my first name is because I do like that little bit of separation between my personal life and my professional life. And I think writing is the perfect opportunity to have kind of that superhero secret identity sort of thing going on that I can go to the grocery store without being recognized, but yet people that are looking for my work would be able to find it.
R:
So you’d like your name or your appending in this case to be known, but not your face?
C.W.:
Yes, definitely. It would be the perfect balance.
R:
And going back to the concept of the premiere and such, how that level of fame work for that, would you still feel comfortable going to the premiere even if that led to you losing some of that anonymity because people would know what you look like or would that still be okay?
C.W.:
Yeah, I think that would still be okay. I think public attention is so fleeting that it’s not like I’m trying to hide my face from the internet. It’s on Cinnabar Moth’s website, it’s on Twitter, it’s not like I’m hiding, I just don’t want to have like a movie star level of fame and I think… You mentioned Stephen King, I think he probably feels the same way, but he would prefer to be a little less known than he is.
R:
That’s quite possible. There is a certain level of pressure as well as potentially even stress sometimes with that level of fame, right? And so that’s kind of all of our questions for you today, but I was wondering if perhaps you had any questions for me or for us regarding Cinnabar Moth or perhaps some comments you’d like to share with the listeners?
C.W.:
No, none that really come to mind. Just wanted to thank you for the interview and for bringing me into the Cinnabar Moth family. I really feel like they do treat all of their authors like they’ve joined the team and I appreciate that experience. So thank you.
R:
Well we’ve appreciated having this entire time and we’ve really enjoyed the process and Relatively Normal Secrets is a beautifully written book. And for all of you listeners out there who have children or are interested in middle grade reading yourself, you can definitely enjoy this book. I would recommend it. And thank you C.W. Allen for talking with us today and being on the Writer’s Triangle. Thank you all of our beautiful moths for listening. Be sure to go and buy Relatively Normal Secrets, it’s out September 7th, 2021. C.W. Allen can you tell us where to find you, social media and such?
C.W.:
Yes. So you can keep up with all my latest projects at my website that is cwallenbooks.com. I am on Twitter @cwallenbooks. And then on my website, you can sign up for a newsletter mailing list about once a month, get an update on what’s going on in my life and any upcoming projects I have. So I’d appreciate that.
R:
Sounds good. And for our listeners at home, please feel free to and be sure to visit cinnabarmoth.com and check out the transcripts of the interview today. And we also have all the links to C.W. Allen social media and website page available via the author page on the website. Once again, thank you all for listening and thank you, C.W. Allen for your time and talking with me today.
C.W.:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.