Episode 55: Ashe Thurman Short Story Interview

R
Hello Cinnabar Moth so any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the writers triangle, Cinnabar Moth podcast but all things publishing and books. Today we are here with ash, the winner of the 2023 Cinnabar Moth Collections prize for short storytelling. Congratulations on your win. How are you doing today, Ash?

A
I’m good. I’m great and fantastic. Wonderful

R
to hear. How’s it feel to be the winner of the prize for short storyteller?

A
It’s fun. Like it’s it’s cool. Like, it’s really always a lot of fun to like, oh, you know, I did this, this short story without like, anticipating any kind of like, a claim or like for it or anything. You know, it was just uh, oh, okay, cool. Yay.

R
Okay, so for you. It’s just

A
nice. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Because like you never like, I have to think you have to come from very have like, realistic perspective. It’s like, oh, never expect to win an award. So that when you do it’s a good time to never disappointed, always enthusiastic.

R
That makes sense. You know, if you’re not expecting to happen, so is it good thing? Right, exactly. Yeah. So what was your first thought when you’re told that you want?

A
Oh, it was just like, Ah, okay. Hey, oh, cool, great. Like, it’s very, like, it’s one of those things where it’s guys, I It’s hard to like, it’s hard to, like, you’re always I’m very much the kind of person who it’s like, when I get a win, so to speak. Um, it’s like, cool. I’m excited. Great. Knowing you the next one. I’m like, um, I like to get excited about things. But at the same time, it’s like, you know, I’m pragmatic. I got, I’m shooting. Okay, I got this, this is great. I can add this to my resume. But now I got to shoot the next thing. You know, don’t be complacent.

R
Okay, so for you. It’s just, it’s a bit of a boost as you continue along, right.

A
So it’s really exciting. It’s a lot of fun. And like, Oh, you’re you’re very proud of yourself. But you also don’t want that to get in the way of like, okay, well, now, what’s the next thing, let’s, let’s shoot for the next thing. Let’s use that energy and keep moving forward.

R
I think that’s always a good way to view is it’s a positive thing that we can use to motivate ourselves to keep along our path. So I asked you, can you can you tell us a little bit about your short story writing process?

A
i Okay. So. So it’s been about short stories for me. So like, when I’m when I’m writing longer fiction, I outline an outline, outline, outline, outline scene to scene moment to moment. So I’ll make sure I don’t miss anything. Oh, why would he plot holes with short stories that kind of just start to the concept. And then I just kind of write. It’s like, I have a general idea, like, Oh, here’s the concept. Excuse me. Here’s the concept. I’ll start writing. And then about 1000 words in, I’ll be like, Okay, this is what should have this other story shouldn’t, this is where the story should go. Because that first 1000 words gives me the feel for the idea of the story and like, what I think is happening, and then the next 2000 3000 4000 are the actual story. And so I’m like, Okay, how I want this to end, okay, let me get there. So for short stories, for me, it’s a very just like, let me slam some things at the wall, see what fits and then go back and make it all kind of adhere and make sure and go back and edit it to like, flow a lot better. But within short stories are very like, now what happens in a short story, it’s really easy to just be like, Okay, this is going to happen, and this is going to happen. And that’s gonna be the end. And so you don’t have to do I don’t personally have to do a whole lot of excessive outlining work ahead of time, I can hold the story in my head for a little better, and then just move forward on the concept. And each short story is definitely has a total goal. Like, oh, I want this story to be written in first person present tense. So I wanted to have this feeling to it. Or I want this story to evoke this specific feeling. And so each story has like a head also has a tonal goal to it. That that speaks to the overall structure.

R
Okay, so for your for your short story process as opposed to your long form work. That’s kind of just a you have this base core concept, right? I mean, you just go from there. See what happens,

A
right? It’s very exploratory. Because you because there’s usually I’m going for a tonal field, like, hey, I want this to have this specific tone. And that will tend to lead to the actual, like plot structure.

R
Yeah, that makes sense to me. It sort of it builds its, it builds a direction for itself that you guys kind of fill in. Right? And then afterwards, he screws it up.

A
Exactly, exactly. Go back and edit and go. Okay, but All right, cool. Like a lot of my a lot of my short stories, a lot of my short stories you start with like, what if statements like, what if this happened? What if this, what if that, and sometimes I’m just, like, bored, and I’ll actually like, look at like, prompt generators, and be like, Oh, okay, but then, like, go completely off the rails with it, like? Um, but yeah, so I can start from kind of anywhere.

R
I think pump generators can be kind of fun, because they can spark completely, like you start off with the prompt. And then when you look at your file story, and you looking at the palms, like the final story, kind of related, I guess,

A
sort of, they’re sort of after a fact. Yeah. But it all seemed they’re also really different. Right? So do you

R
often draw inspiration from your, your own life for your work? Or?

A
I? Yes, and no. So like, I feel like a lot of my work because I work in sci fi and fantasy primarily, and global horror. What I tend to what I tend, what tends to happen, for me is like, it’s the it’s, it’s more of like a, like, the sci fi and fantasy in particular, I won’t say it’s like my own life. And so like, I definitely pull things from from like, my own life, and be like, oh, yeah, this is an experience I had. But a lot of it is also just like, a lot of it tends to be more, I read something. And I thought it was stupid. And I would have done this differently. Like, like, Oh, I was introduced the story idea. I liked the concept of it, but I felt like it was very poorly executed. And very, very silly. Like, I could totally have done better. And so like, I take the concept and go from there. So it’s less of a own life experiences and more of a what I’ve consumed life experience. That makes sense.

R
Okay, so it’s not a you get exposed to these very interesting and cool concepts. And you’re like, I think I could do a really cool execution of this

A
right? Or like, or like this, but I wanted to the opposite. Like, oh, man, what if that was the case, but it was the opposite. And I said, like, I always have dreams I really weird dreams. It’s all wake up and be like, That was a cool dream. What happened? All on? Well, I happen. And then like, it ends up being something

R
that’s interesting. I haven’t. I haven’t spoken with somebody who said that they they draw, writing inspiration from their dreams before.

A
It’s usually not like a one for one kind of thing. But like, I’ll have a dream. There’ll be some aspect of that dream, where I’m like, That’s kind of cool. Where’d that come from? I don’t know, I can I like I said last time to take a while to like, actually work it through. But like

R
it’s just it plants the seed in your mind. Right, exactly. That makes sense. So with your with your short story writing in your work, do you have an idea of kind of a direction? Do you have an overall direction with your body of work that you go for? Or

A
I definitely trying to do a lot more. So like I write, and I’m really short fiction at this point. And I’ve done a lot of games, I’ve written a lot of games. And I’d like to move away from those I still want to, I still like writing short stories. So I still kind of have those on the backburner. I just kind of write them and then submit them as needed. Or like, you know, whatever, get requests for him or whatever. But I’m really trying to move kind of back into like, traditional novels. And like, because that was where I started a long time ago, was trying to write novels and not doing great. I had to kind of learn to write long form. And I just hadn’t, I finally have. So now I’m trying to move back into it, where I can write a book and put it out and people will read it. It’ll be great.

R
Okay, so your current direction that you’re trying to get to is getting back. Oh, yeah, actually moving away from the short storytelling back to novel writing. Yeah, like

A
I said, I still have the shorts. I’m still gonna keep doing short stories, because those are like fun, and I just kind of I try to like keep writing them, you know, in the background of other things. But yeah, yeah. Moving back into more novels.

R
Okay, that makes sense. It’s kind of just a matter of focus, so to speak.

A
Right? Right, because it’s like, you only have so much bandwidth. And so it’s it’s where do you have the most energy?

R
Or your current writing? So far? Do you have an idea of writing awards that you would be super excited to win? I know, you mentioned before, it’s kind of a thing where you don’t have an expectation for it. But yet once a day, like that’s really nice.

A
Oh, absolutely, like long term, like my goal, like, like, long term, long term long term is I’m shooting for that Nebula, or that Hugo? Because like, those are like the big sci fi and fantasy writing awards, and like, I would die. Like that would be like, that would be it. I want to get at least nominated. You know, that would be basically like, I would feel as though I was being recognized, like, as a mainstream writer, if I was to at least be in the running for those love that level award. I’m like, oh, yeah, people see me, I exist. You’ve seen my face passing. You see my writing, so it’s great.

R
So it feels like it’d be a stamp saying, you’ve made it into the eye of the mainstream.

A
Yeah, basically. Like, not like, like, it’s funny, because like those kinds of awards, it’s hard to know how much they actually like, because like, they’re consistently good books. Now, there’s obviously books who have not won who goes in nebulas that are just as good as the Hugo nebula winners. But like, it’s definitely one of those things of like, okay, people see you now. But I definitely

R
agree, if you’ve been nominated, then that shows that people enjoyed your work, right? Whether ends up being finally chosen is a different matter. That’s

A
right. All right. I mean, chuck, chuck tangles were nominated for like two Hugo’s at this point. And so that’s good company as far as I’m concerned.

R
And so going back to your writing process a little bit, would you say that there’s something a bit surprising about your your process with writing are different than what people might expect? I know

A
what’s funny is I think it was actually back with something one of the one of the cinnabar moth people. I had mentioned something in a tweet somewhere about like, how sometimes with short stories, I just kind of throw stuff on the page. I think one of the actual cinnabar moth people when he all was like, Oh, that’s so surprising. And because of it all flows together so smoothly. I’m like, Yeah, because I’m good at editing. I’m good at editing. I don’t know. Like, it’s, it’s I feel like I don’t do things in a particularly different way than anybody else. Like Pantsers versus plotters is just a thing. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know. I just I don’t think I do think particularly like, different than anybody else. I just, I just do it. You know, I just do the things other people do.

R
Okay, so you’re not doing anything out of these, like, sort of expected writing processes?

A
I don’t think so. Like I don’t I don’t feel as though I’m doing something different outside the writing process. There’s the average. Oh, this is just people right? Yeah.

R
That’s, that’s fair. I think that’s really good writing can come I mean, it’s the formulas for a reason. Right? Right. Exactly. methods and processes for a reason. Right? I think if it works, I mean it clearly does we we appreciate your work here. cinnabar moth we enjoy it. So we have no complaints. Right? I’ll ask you do you have any advice you would give to aspiring authors or aspiring writers either short storytelling or even long form?

A
It just like what you write it’s if you try to those colors to like approaches writing, there’s writing to trend and then there is writing for yourself. And you can you can write to tread Nothing is good. Nothing stops you from writing to trend. Like oh, It’s really popular right now I’m going to write about that. But like long term, is that sustainable? Is that going to make you happy? Is that going to be something that you can look back on and enjoy? And you can you can go both directions. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being an to trend writer like that there’s still talent there involved. But like, what do you want to be? Do you want to be the person who writes to trend, and then has to keep up with trends and has to go through that process, which again, is perfectly fine. Like, that’s not nothing wrong with that. It’s just like, it’s a different approach to writing or dealing with the kind of writer who writes what they want. And just hope it gets picked up. Because those of us to tell us the truth, that’s the two sides of the coin. Writing to trend is easier marketing, but writing what you want, means you have to find your find your people. Pick one, like, Who do you want to be and be happy with that?

R
Okay, so it’s your advice would be to choose your late

A
July and she’s like, you can you can definitely go back and forth. Like there’s definitely you can, you can change your mind halfway through and switch lanes. But just like, be aware, like, there’s not there’s not a right or wrong way to be a writer. Just know what you’re doing and like, know what you’re in for, and be happy with it and be happy with it. Like I met a writer at a conference recently, who was very upfront about the fact that she had written her books to trend like, yeah, you know, this is really big this year. So I charted these out a turn these four books out in a year. And I couldn’t do that. That would that would not be something I can physically do. Physically. Like, I don’t think I could write four. But I can I write pretty I can. I can write pretty fast. When it works. I can write fairly fast. I couldn’t write for full length novels in a year. But she was so but she was very aware of the fact that oh, I’m I’m doing it. I’m commercially writing. You know, I’m not. She was very aware of the fact that the art she was creating wasn’t necessarily like, it was just commercial art, which is fine. Oh, my God, it’s fine. Like, that’s perfect. But she was happy with that. She was like, Yeah, I know what I’m writing. I’m still enjoying it. I know that it’s still good. I just know that, like I’m writing to trend and that’s all there is to it. And I’m like, Cool, great. But she was happy with what she was doing. Me I would not be happy doing that.

R
Oh sizer are good. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. If, if you’re happy with what you’re writing, you can keep on going down that path and honing your craft, you know, exactly. hone your craft as you do it. Enjoy your process. So, speaking of personal processes, personal styles, how, how would you describe your writing style?

A
I feel like I feel like there’s I feel like I have a very, I feel like I have a very strong voice. As far as like, like, you can you can. Me personally, I feel like you can tell when I’ve written something. Even if even if the voice is different between pieces. It’s like, oh, yeah, no, I wrote that. And so I also feel like I have my own personal voice. It’s really strong as far as my styles over strong boys. And then pardon him hiccuping a lot for some reason. And but I also I feel like a lot of my themes, a lot of my themes, I feel like I do this a lot. Go back and look at things is what am I like, one of the things I like is I like stories about I like stories about very ordinary people who’ve been put in extraordinary circumstances, but they themselves are very ordinary. They’re there. I don’t like writing hero stories. I don’t like writing. I’m the chosen one kind of stories or like, Oh, I’m particularly strong and brave and whatever. Like I’m particularly it’s, I like writing stories about normal people where something stupid or something big or something strange happens around them, and they’re having to deal with that circumstance. And that I like I like I like dealing with mysteries. Like I feel like my style definitely leans on there is something happening and we need to figure out what that happening is. is pretty popular. If like I’m not trying my writing style very well. I love I love including mysteries. I love a style All that embraces that the things we perceive may not be what they actually are. Like, I feel like I do that a lot where it’s like it’s embracing, like, Hey, this is how I perceive the world and guess what something else is actually happening. Or there’s another element on top that I didn’t know about. And so a style that sort of plays into that have a limited understanding of the universe of experiencing the universe, a certain person’s perspective, and not outside that perspective. And really honing in on how a character feels about a situation. As opposed to how I feel about situations as a writer as an author, like, like, making making sure it’s a very narrow view of what’s happening in the universe. So that that surprising element can come in and it’s like, Oh, my God, where’d that come from?

R
Okay, I think I have a sense.

A
Yeah.

R
I think it’s pretty clear. Actually, it’s a, at least to me, that seems clear of characters, you know, who are themselves small, in a sense, right, Deus into very large situations,

A
right. And then the perception of that situation being limited to what the character could experience. Right. And like, from their perspective, I like to call it like, I feel like I call my writing my point of view, style, character, third person, where it’s like, it’s technically I think, limited third person by me, it’s like, I’m writing as though the character was telling the story, but not necessarily in first person. So if the character is a very sarcastic, very sardonic, the writing is going to come through a little more like that in the outside form, in the in the narration and the descriptions. But if they’re a little more premium or proper, then the writing is going to reflect that. So meshing, the actual, like diction and semantics of the writing with how the character experiences the universe.

R
Okay, that’s an interesting way of describing it. Yeah, I hadn’t heard before, because I’ve definitely written or read rather, not written, but read work like that, where it’s a very limited scale and, and experienced it, but honestly, it’s hard to describe that way. Yeah, I think it’s, I personally enjoy it, and have enjoyed your work. I want to ask you, you mentioned earlier that you’re moving away, or modestly moving away, but focusing more on long form writing, instead of short storytelling, right? Do you feel that short storytelling doesn’t match your writing style as well? Or is there a reason for that preference,

A
it’s not so much that. So what it is, is I at my core, I’m a world builder. I like building worlds and like putting different species together and like seeing what happens. And so it’s really hard to fully like a couple of my short stories like actually exist in the same universe. Several, some of my short stories over the years exist in the same universe, you wouldn’t know it, because they’re very disparate. But like, it’s just very hard to really explore all those avenues. In a short story like short stories, you’re getting little snapshots. And you can exist in a big world. And you can exist in a very complex world, really only getting a snapshot. And so what I feel like novels allow you to do and like novels series in particular, is allow you more time to actually live in that world experience that world, see what that world looks like. So it’s not so much I actually prefer short form writing. I really, like as far as the actual physical physicality of it. Like I love putting together like very short pieces, and I love the freedom of being able to come up with little like quick worlds, and quick scenarios, and quick universes. That short story, let me do that the same time I have this big, beautiful universe I’ve been working on for 30 years. And I’m only ever gonna get to really explore it with longer form writing, and novels and novel series and serials and that kind of thing.

R
Okay, so you prefer the short story and kind of enjoy that more. But in the end, because of the expanse that you’re building and the depth of world building that you get into, right, it just is more suited towards long form writing to be able to explain that.

A
Exactly. Like I’ve had to basically learn Learn how to write long. Because short story I have, because short stories come easy short stories. I’m just like, bam 5000 words done here it is. 3000 words BAM done. Here it is. Yeah, but with like long form, I’ve had to, like teach myself how to actually plot and like, oh my god, what happens next? I have we actually have to give them something to do. They can’t just exist. Yeah, so it’s like, I definitely short stories come come my way we’re naturally. But yeah, novels are the only place from ever going to be able to actually like fully explore all this stuff I Paul’s work and do.

R
And because you want to explore you’re stuck with it.

A
Exactly. That’s really fair. So you learn to love it, what you do is you learn to love it, of course. And

R
I think the you know, part of why you’re doing it as well is the fact that you want to explore these things. So this is the medium that allows it. Right, exactly. So with you going to the short story, as well as the long form and having these various forms of writing, and these various topics that you cover. What do you hope people get out of your Oracle and say read for example, and an ash Thurman short story?

A
Um definitely like this idea of like, Oh, I love I love people to be delighted to be forced to like, oh my gosh, well, I didn’t say didn’t didn’t coming. That’s amazing. You’re are like having to I really love people be able to like, read a story. And then you work through that story, then reevaluate their own perception of something or other, or like, have that moment of like, oh, I came into this with a certain idea that this would happen. And then that didn’t happen. I have to reconsider how I approach narratives, you know, surprise, is why I’d always like to like, surprise, and then just like, a delight, surprise and learn, like thinking like I want, I want I want I love a book or a short story, where afterward I think about it all the time. Where I come back, and I’m like, Man, that thing I know that thing, or I think that’s what I want. I want I want something to be left behind. That you’re not just reading it and you move on. But like something gets left behind when you read it, whatever that happens to be.

R
So it’s kind of leaving that impression on someone.

A
Yes. Leaving impression? And then yeah, and then like sinking sinking your teeth in there a little bit.

R
Having having enough substance where they can experience it beyond just I read a book. It was nice.

A
Right? Exactly.

R
Okay. Yeah, I definitely think there are quite a few stories where I read it. And I was like, that’s a good book. It was well written. And then it’s gone.

A
Right? I definitely think in the law, especially with like when it comes to like long form fiction, because you have more time to sit with characters. Like I would hope that one day someone would like name and a pet after one of my characters. Like, that’s the level of like, oh, man, I really liked his character. I think about this character a lot. I got a new cat. I’m naming this character this I mean, my cat this character, like that level of like, I wouldn’t say like fandom or devotion. But like that level of oh, I connected with this. So much of this character is on my mind. I think about this character all the time. To the point where it’s like, oh, yeah, I like I like it was a book was like, Well, my favorite books. I got a new puppet. You got a new Dragon puppet. And the insult I got the sea dragon puppet. I was like, What am I gonna name it? Oh, I’m naming this character from this book. Because it’s perfect. That’s what I want.

R
Yeah, I can actually really connect with that because I want my first email actually was named after I put it as the name of a character that I really liked from a book that I had read, write. And a lot of how I interacted with people, or for my online persona ended up being how that character acting because I thought they were really cool. That was really Yeah, I was like, 13 at the time.

A
Yeah, but still, it’s like it’s like, yeah, it’s that thing of like, oh, man, this really like, stuck with me.

R
Right? Even though I can I can remember the character how they acted. And that story is play sit with me for my entire life. And so for your work Do you have authors or stories that had that kind of impression on you that maybe inspired your own work?

A
So I Yeah, so I, I could, I could like it, list them shoot. I’m like, I grew up reading a lot of classic sci fi and fantasy I read so much like Ray Bradbury, Ray Bradbury was like, was like my guy, like, I’ve read every single short story of his like, literally ever. And it’s funny because like, he isn’t necessarily like the the coolest person. Like he’s all right is like a person. But there’s something about his short stories. Like, it’s funny because he has a very broad array. It’s very funny to me, because he has a very anti technology focus and the vast majority of his writing. It’s very anti technology. It’s very like, oh my god, horrible things are gonna happen to us. But in that context, when you read it from like a modern perspective, it’s like it strikes a little different. It doesn’t it doesn’t read nearly as technophobic for some reason to me, it doesn’t. Alyss very complex. Like there’s one short story in particular that like literally sits with me forever. It’s called tomorrow’s child by Ray Bradbury. And it’s where like, this birthing machine goes wrong. And what happens is, the child is born into a different dimension than the everybody else. And so in our world, he’s just like this little like shape. But it’s always weird. So like so it’s very, it’s a very anti technology short story on the surface. But like when you act but from like a more modern perspective, it reads more like what happens when you use technology wrong and as opposed to be anti technology as a whole. It’s it’s very, it’s it’s very interesting. And so I’m a big Bradbury reader. And I was always really big on like Douglas Adams, Neil Gaiman. And I really like Martha wells, a lot. Martha Wells is one of those writers where it’s like, I read Martha wells the first time it was like, Oh, my God, why are you in my head? But then I also find her approach to fantasy in particular, to be something that’s so different than everybody else, like the books the rock Sahra in particular, it’s like, Oh, my God, that’s I want more fantasy like that. Like that’s closer to the fantasy I want to write. Where it’s, it’s odd, it’s strange and weird. And there’s no humans and magic is very oddly, it’s very, like a lot closer to what I want from fantasy. And so that’s a lot of fun. I’m a very, I’m very weird because I read a lot of sci fi, but I write fantasy. And so my fantasy like, I primarily write feel I write sci fi as well. But I mean, like, my big like, lore world, like my big, like, focus tends to be fantasy. But I read a lot of sci fi ever. I love sci fi, short stories. And so they sort of like inform the fantasy of writing very, very strongly.

R
So it sounds like you have a quite a few different authors and different zyk works from those authors even, but had a really great connection for you.

A
Right, like anything that’s very like, like my fate. Like, also, I think it’s like very weird, anything that’s very weird and theoretical, like my favorite book of all time, that I could go down to my shelf and read again and would like it, again, is flatland by Edwin Abbott Abbott, which is a book about math. It’s about theoretical geometry. It’s also a satire in Victorian society. And it’s like, it’s weird, and I love it. It’s my favorite book. And it’s the concepts in it in forums, so much of what I do now, of this, like, our perception of reality is based on our own limited perception of reality, and oh my god, what else could be out there? And that’s all flatland is that’s what all flight was about. But from a mathematical perspective.

R
actually sounds pretty interesting. I’ve never heard this story before but yeah, piqued my interest

A
it’s it’s written it’s Victorian story. It’s written in like 18 something stupid. Yeah, I know the the premise of flatland is that it’s a society where it’s everything is two dimensional. Like everybody’s like a shapes like our main character is a square. And his children are like Pentagon’s and his children grandchildren are hexagons. And like women are lines and like this whole like Victorian satire on top of it, but what happens is our square meets a sphere. He was in third, a third dimension. And so r square is trying to process the idea that there’s a third dimension out there that he can’t conceive, like he physically can’t understand. They’re being an idiot. Like, like, we can’t understand there being a fourth dimension, this 2d character can’t fit into being a third dimension. And so it’s just it’s that it’s all math, but like, I love it.

R
That sounds weird.

A
I love it. It’s one of my favorite books. I read it for the first time when I was like, nine. My mom’s a math and science teacher. So like, it was like I read for the first time when I was like, nine. And then I’ve read it probably once every other year since then.

R
Yeah, when I say weird, I don’t mean that in a bad way. So

A
Oh, no, no, it’s absolutely weird. It’s excellent. Isn’t this a movie of it? So if the book isn’t quiet, on a good movie, but it’s a movie.

R
I think that’s an opinion that I share with some of the books that I read. It’s like the movies. It exists. It’s a movie.

A
Though, there are some there definitely. There’s a there’s there’s one. There’s one opera in particular, I won’t say the actual name. But they’re very prolific. But I actually prefer the movies of their books over the books themselves. So

R
I think I can. Yeah, so it sounds like you’ve got a lot of wonderful inspirations. And hopefully your work will also be able to inspire other people in the same way. I want to ask you when it comes to work, is any of it dedicated anybody?

A
You know, like? So I’m in a lot of like, online spaces where I meet people who I meet young people, lots of times, you don’t realize that there are other people like them out there. So I feel like as a whole, like, if I had to, like pick a group to dedicate work to it would be like, the people out there who don’t currently see themselves in the writing that it currently exists, and who like, want something different, or like when something new and it’s like, this is for those this is dedicated to y’all, you know, this is dedicated to people who aren’t finding what they want, currently, in the world of writing, and like, Maybe mine doesn’t quite do it either. But like, at least

R
trying. It’s at least a nod in that direction. Right? Even if it doesn’t quite fully extend the hand to that specific person. Right? I can understand that. Wanting to open up the dialogue towards that, even if we’re to provide a space for some of the people even if doesn’t catch up. With all writing, you can’t really catch everybody in it, right?

A
Oh, yeah, it’s impossible.

R
So even just bits and pieces, having some people connect to it, and having the kind of ground be broken for further diversity, so to speak, with writing.

A
Exactly.

R
I think that’s a wonderful dedication. Do you have for when, when going into this, like the smaller writing circles and the lesser known, you have an indie author that you’d like to tell people about or happy,

A
I will absolutely take this moment to shout out Amy Campbell. Because Amy Campbell, she lives in the same state as I do, so there’s a connection there. Amy Campbell, I think she just put out the third one or the fourth one. She writes the series. I love it because it’s so different. I’ve only read the first one or the first book, but I’m just waiting. I’m savoring it until I get to the next one. She writes a series that is magical cowboys. They’re mage, they’re mage, it’s old west. But they’re also mages, and they ride Pegasi as like their horses. And then in addition to that, she also has like non human species and that kind of stuff. But I absolutely I love that premise. I absolutely love when someone’s like, I’m gonna write fantasy and I don’t care about the setting. I’m just like weird and different with a setting. I’m going to I’m not going to it’s going to be Eurocentric. I’m going to do something different. And I love her characters and I love her. One of her main characters is an asexual character, which I oh my god, like you don’t see that very often. But he’s not just asexual. He’s also in a romantic relationship with another man. So it’s like he is Ace, but he’s in a romantic relationship. And he’s not like this kind of like robotic character. So like, you know, she’s Aced, like I’m A’s. And so it’s like we both have like the suit So she knows what she’s doing, basically. And I can read it and be like, Oh my god, I love this guy. And I just I absolutely love this year this year, and the book is called breaker, as the first book is called breaker. And then the other books are called other things. Yeah, that’s the that’s the outlaw mage series out love mage series by Amy Campbell. Who I hope she does. I think I hope she does more after this series. We’ll say she I don’t think she even knows. We talk sometimes.

R
Oh, nice. You’re right.

A
Yeah, this it’s book, tick tock, the Tick Tock reader, writer community, it’s really easy to be like, Oh, my God, I loved your book. Oh, my God, a reader. And so yeah, we’ve talked a couple of times. We’ve also lived in the same state. And so there’s always a possibility that we’re actually going to meet in person someday. Who knows. So I’m trying

R
to be friends. Yeah, I think that’d be exciting. Talk about

A
completely different parts of the state. And it’s Texas. So you know, Texas is Yeah. Yeah, that’s how you. But yeah.

R
That’s a journey in and of itself. Right. Exactly. Well, but I think that’s a wonderful note to leave it off on. Thank you, Ashe, for talking to me today and for being on the writers triangle and gratulations. Again, on being the winner for the center of moth literary collections prize for short storytelling.

A
Yeah, absolutely excited.

R
Can you tell us where we can find you on social media?

A
Yes. So my website is pixels and pins.com which is p i x e l s. pixels and pins – p i n s – .com. And that has links to like, all my writing and like where you can find my short stories where you can find my games where you can find my serials and that kind of good stuff. And then all my social media is that same handle pixels and pins and they’ll be Twitter. But once I’m active on right now or Twitter, Tiktok and Instagram, I used to be more active and other ones, but maybe I will in the future. Who knows. I’m sure you can find me that you can track me down. That’s where all my stuff gets linked to have been truly

R
wonderful. And for all of our listeners, be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com or cinnabar moth literary collections.com and check out the transcripts there also have the link to Ashe’s social media. Thank you to all our beautiful moths for listening and bye