Episode 56: Writing Good Horror
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Hello, my beautiful cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be. Welcome to the writers triangle, a podcast about publishing and all things books. Today we’re going to be talking about how to write a great horror story, whether it be a flash piece, short story, or full length novel. And there are some basic rules that that apply to all writing. And we’re going to be looking at the basic rules that apply to good writing and putting a horror spin on that. And the things that we’re going to be covering are setting and atmosphere, beginnings and endings, and characters. Because those are the main things I feel really make a good horror story. Those are the aspects that I focus on in there, like you can Google it, and there’s like, you know, Google Smeagol, there’s 1,000,001 different perspectives. This is our perspective. And if you’re going to submit a book, to us or to a different publishing house, is a great insight on how publishers look at horror, rather than how other writers may look at horror. So I give the publishing perspective on it. And this is, of course, as always a love letter to authors. And I want to demystify, what the industry thinks is makes good horror. And so this is my perspective, plus my insights and talking with other publishers about what they think makes a good horror story. And also just my experience, and being a fan of writing, and the type of writing that I really enjoy. I want to start off by talking about openings a bit. I feel like we don’t always have to start there. And I think there’s a lot of pressure on making a great opening, like horror has to grab you by the throat or horror has to be transgressive, or horror has to be very gory. And I don’t agree with with any of those, I think that there can be very quiet openings that that lull you into a false sense of safety, only to destroy that piece later on in the writing. And I feel that that Jo or author and residents is an amazing example of this. Joe does this really great job of every single one of the short stories that I’ve ever read by Joe that are horror based and you can read them throughout winter and, and if you’re not listening to the US and 2020 to go check out cinnabar moth literary collections and look at our 2022 catalog, the winter of 2022 We just had tons of great horror, and something that that almost every single one of the stories that I’ve published does is that it in the opening, it opens one way and then subvert that expectation. So it creates a sense of of safety or it creates a sense of simplicity, or it creates a sense of relaxation, that for me, I like horror stories that start one way and end a different way. So if it starts off frantic, I like it to end peacefully if it starts off peaceful. I like it to end frantic. I really love when my expectations are subverted. And for me that sort of it’s the ying and yang of closing. I also enjoy symmetries like if it starts off frantic and ends frantic I just for a novel length piece. I don’t like the entire pace to be frantic. And the same with with a short story when you’re looking at you know, over 3000 words, you’re going to want to take the reader on a ride. So the opening and closing you have your beginning and end destination and even if you want it to be like a roller coaster, if you think about how a roller coaster starts off it doesn’t start off with all those wild twists and turns it starts off with this really slow anticipation building just Creek up to the top of the ride and I’ve always found that to be the most terrifying part of a roller coaster ride for me is the the ascent, the climb up that hill and there’s all this anticipation of what it’s going to be like to fall from that hate. And I’ve always felt like I can I don’t know if I can hear it or find imagining it but I just whenever I think of a roller coaster I think of that. Click, click, click as it goes up like each piece and I’m sure nowadays it’s been a while since I’ve been on a roller coaster. But back in the day they were actually pulled by chains and so you could actually hear them, hear them quick. And that always created so much anticipation of the fall for me. And that created so much terror I was just completely terrified. By the time I reached the I would reach the top of the ride that when I came down I was just ready to scream and I would just scream the whole time and it would be so much fun releasing all of that that pent up energy and If I enjoy that type of anticipatory read, I also do enjoy a good hard slap in the face when it comes to a book. I don’t like being grabbed by the throat by books. I don’t like too aggressive of a beginning. But there are presses out there that really want transgressive fiction. And I find that if you’re looking at writing transgressed transgressive, that’s different than horror, you can write transgressive horror. But you can also write horror, that’s not transgressive at all. And that is well within the mainstream. So when you’re looking at your opening, and your beginning, for me, that always felt like an awkward place to start a horror story. For me, I always I start with the feeling I want to create. And when I because when I read horror, I am reading it for a feeling I want to have existential dread, right, I want to have fear, I want to have anticipation, I want to have drama. I also want to have empathy, and suspense, and all of those things that lead to excitement. And I do want to be taken on a ride, I want to be taken on a journey, every time I read and horror is no different than that. It has to be no matter what genre it has to be fundamentally a good story. So looking at the opening and the beginning, it’s okay to start your writing in the middle. You don’t have to start at the beginning or start at the end where whatever your writing process is. That’s the right process wherever it feels most organic for you to start a story. To start your writing process. That’s where you should start it. Some people start with a setting or an atmosphere, some people start with a character, some people start with an idea. And I think it’s a good habit for all writers to carry around a notebook with them. And when they see something that might spark inspiration to jot down just a couple lines and see if that later turns into a story. And when we put and the reason why I suggest is it’s completely self serving. I want great stories. And I want great submissions. And when we put an open call out for subs for the easing, specifically, it comes with themes, I just throw out a bunch of themes. And the themes are based on our authors and residents and our authors and residents. We have one poet in residence a year and two authors and residents. And our poetry prize winner is our author in residence for the summer. And then in the fall winter, is our short story prize winner is the author and residence and then at the beginning of the year, for the end of winter and into spring, we have just a short story author that we know and enjoy that we give a residency to so we have three residencies a year. And they give us four stories. And once I get those four stories that I’ve picked themes, the reason I’m talking about this process is because when I put out a theme such as eco horror, then that’s a specific type of horror. And if you’re out in the world, and you see some plant life that is truly horrific, that would be a great thing to take a note on right like this plant evoked this in me or this plant. I thought this where I saw this. And now that most of us have smartphones, I don’t I’m one of the rare people doesn’t have a smartphone or or mobile phone of any kind.
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But if you have a smartphone of some kind, you can snap a photo of wherever you’re at, throughout your day and see if that photo inspires you because as a writer, it really is about keeping inspiration. And for me, there are so many great horror stories that start from by painting a picture in my mind of the setting, and then either fulfilling the expectation of that setting, or sub subverting the feeling of that studying. And Joe is, is great at doing that subverting the expectation. Joe likes to start off with creating a sense of safety has been my experience of reading Joe’s work. And other authors like to start off by creating a sense of dread. And both of those are okay, some want to start off with the feeling of happiness. And I think of our anthology that we put out last winter and there were a lot of horror stories in there that started off one way and ended another and that’s always been for me one of my favorites I have to admit. So when looking at what writing the story thinking about the setting and the atmosphere, but also thinking about your motives and choosing that setting our atmosphere is your motive to create a feeling of safety and security, and then take away that safety is your motive of, of that setting in that atmosphere to create a feeling of dread, and then fulfill that, or take us through that what is going to be the journey through the setting. When you’re thinking about setting and atmosphere and mood, it shouldn’t be a stagnant feeling, even if it’s just one place, even if it’s one single setting something as simple as the kitchen table or staying in the kitchen or staying at a table, you can still there are a lot of really great horror movies and horror stories that are written just around a table and they stay at that table. And really horrific things start to happen to the people who sit around that table. And that meal gets turned into something really horrific. And I think that, that that’s very valid and very fun and interesting to do. And so it’s a ride that I’m willing to take, if you get my buy in if it’s authentic, riding with authentic authenticity is something I really enjoy. And it’s something I think that we should talk more about, especially for talking about horror. And writing with authenticity. And honesty is about believing it yourself. When writers write from an insecure place, or an unhappy place where they’re not feeling like it’s true to them or true to form, there’s an end in authenticity, when and it just it feels fake, which is really interesting to me. Because for me the buy in really starts with your buy in as an author, do you believe it? Are you? Are you buying what you’re selling kind of thing? When you’re looking at this opening? Or when you’re looking at your closing? Or you’re studying and the atmosphere? Does this? Is this what creates dread in you? Is this? What creates dread in someone? You know, what? Where are you getting this understanding of the dread or the happiness or the safety that you’re trying to create? In the story you’re writing? Do you have first hand experience with these emotions? And do you have second hand experience? Where are you drawing from? And do you have an intimacy with with where you’re drawing from? I find that when authors write from a place of intimacy, it is just so captivating. It just really, it comes off the page. And it just it resonates. And I just feel it in my bones. There’s just this feeling of Yes. And I feel so compelled to continue reading. And I feel so connected to the story and the author, and the characters in the story.
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So I think this is a great place to segue to characters. So we talked about Mr. kind of recap, we talked about openings and closings and starting to right where wherever it suits you and having asymmetry or symmetry and the opening and closing. And we talked a little bit about setting an atmosphere and looking at the setting and the atmosphere based on what emotion you want to evoke and the authenticity with that emotion. Now I want to talk about the characters for me. A lot of people try to write characters that I will hate. And that always feels really forced for me. When and I can tell when the author’s desire is to write, just write a really disgusting person. And the problem with that is there is no universal, disgusting person. Honestly, and truly, if you think about the most horrific and horrible human being that you can think of, there’s another person on this earth who’s either liked them or who would not find them to be horrible. Writing unlikable characters, for me is just a really bad goal. Instead, right authentic to the Story characters. So you have your setting in your atmosphere and you have your opening and you have in that in that opening or even if you’re starting in the middle, you’re making a compact with the readers, right? You’re saying I’m going to make a commitment. Rather I’m going to take you on this journey and you’re going to trust me and it really does require trust to read someone’s story, you’re trusting that the story is going somewhere that you want to go, you’re trusting that this story is going to have a certain standard of, of writing and interest for you. So for me, that means that I have to trust your judgment as a writer. And that comes across with whether or not the characters fit the setting, or is there this juxtaposition between the characters or the characters, so just out of pocket and wrong for the setting, that that creates some horror. And I want to use a story from the anthology that pops into mine, crimson snow, where there is a juxtaposition between this bloodsoaked clown and a snow covered Earth. And for me, that created really stark contrast between the whiteness of snow and the redness of blood and what that would look like if blood were to drip and smell. And they write very viscerally about it in a way that just really drew me in. And I was just completely captivated. And it was one of the creepiest stories I’ve ever read. And I really, really enjoyed it. And that’s what I want to, I want to come away with, for me as I when I go into the horror space, I want to feel disturbed. At the core of me. It’s very rare that I feel frightened when when reading horror, or watching scary movies. I don’t think that I have been frightened by a horror movie since I was very little. And that was because I watched the exorcist when I was 10 or 11. And I saw it in theaters. And it really messed me up. And so the adults in my life were like, Okay, you need to understand storytelling and movie making. And it was like a whole thing that kind of stopped my ability to suspend disbelief, because there was three movies that came out really close together. And that was the Exorcist, the original Amen. And Amityville Horror, and all three of those were just really terrifying for me. And then there was, gosh, the other one, where they go off into the woods, I can’t remember, can’t remember it. And it’s the Jack Nicholson one.
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And he’s like, Here’s Johnny, in the scary twins, I can’t think of the name of the movie, leave it down in the comments, if you can think of it. It’s just really just running the opposite direction on my brain. But I saw those group of movies. And those were, that was the last time in sort of my preteen years that I was scared of, it’s kind of a movie and reading, I don’t get scared when I read. And I think that has to do with me being dyslexic. But I completely digress here. When you’re looking at what you want the readers to feel, you can’t guarantee it because there have been things that have been written for the purpose of scaring an audience. And you can’t really decide how an audience is going to feel about someone. Like for example, on this field, I’m talking about horror, I’m thinking about Bextra, the shining, that’s the name of the movie, the shining the thing about and I’ll use that as the example for characters. For the shining, I actually felt really bad for Jack. And I did not like the little boy at all. I was hoping the little boy and his mom would die. In the movie. I didn’t like them. I didn’t want them to be happy. And I was rooting for the bad guy. Because I felt like this poor guy was just trying to get a job to take care of his family and do the right thing and write his book. And then he gets possessed. And you know, these, these ghosts just totally seduced him and draw them draw him into this twisted world. And I felt really bad for him. But I felt like in the movie, the portrayal of him I’ve never read the book. And the movie, the portrayal of him was very sympathetic from my perspective. But that wasn’t the goal. He was supposed to be this person that you bought into and liked and connected with but you were supposed to empathize with his wife and care about her character. There’s going to be outliers out here who out there who get the opposite message. So when you’re trying to make someone feel something that’s sort of the wrong motivation. And instead stay true to your own feelings. What are you? Excuse me? What are you feeling as you’re writing this what? What makes your skin crawl what makes you feel uncomfortable, what makes you squirm and start from there, or what makes somebody you know start from a place of, of honesty. And with the characters, looking at what is this character’s journey going to be, with no expectation of what people are going to connect with in terms of liking or disliking. Instead, I would go for fearsome or not fearsome. Because while I was rooting for him, I was also terrified by him, because it was watching the human mind break and bend and be distorted from this place of, of gentleness to this place of extreme violence. And that journey from mild mannered to kind of harsh and rough around the edges to really dark and twisted. That journey of the character that character journey was a ride I was on for.
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And looking at at that, you see that there are several characters that we get to choose which perspective we’re going to read and which perspective we’re going to follow. And in horror, there is a bad guy, right? The person who’s doing the horror or the entity that’s doing the horror, and then there are the people who are experiencing the horror. And for that, we have, there has to be a way for the reader to stop either into the shoes of the people who are going to suffer the horrific acts, or the shoes of the people who are going to experience the horrific and create rather, who are going to create the horrific acts. Even if it’s an entity, we have to, there has to be some point of we’re relating to these characters. And we’re vibing with these characters. And we’re buying into these characters experiences. And we’re living vicariously whether or not we become the body or whether or not we empathize with the victims. And I think that that is something that is the hallmark of great horror is that there are a lot of ways to enter the story. And a lot of points of views to experience a story from even if as the story is written as if you do a serial killer story, there’s going to be little vignettes, as I think of of them, when I think of serial killer stories, where there is the killing persona, and then the non killing persona that every day to day, living through life persona, and popping back and forth between those, we have to be able to go on a journey that’s believable to us. And that feels authentic and true to our lived experience, or something that we could buy into even if it’s supernatural or eco horror, or post apocalyptic or zombie, something, we haven’t experienced that or falls within what we understand human nature to be. And I hope that that makes that makes sense. When you’re because for me with the characters, what I’m hoping to convey in this podcast is that whore is just like any other type of writing, basically. And I think when we talk about genre, I think there are some rules for the genre. And for me, I feel like know the rules, so you know what you’re breaking if you break them that I don’t enjoy, I’ve yet to come across an article that sets out rules for a specific genre that I agree with. I always find exceptions to the rules. So for me, horror is just about writing a good story that creates some sort of visceral feeling, whether that visceral feeling is repulsion, or dread, or fear, or anger, or feeling grossed out because it’s just so grotesque. And I think splatter punk horror really captures that feeling of just like, wow, this is really gross. Because that can be a sort of sense of dread, you know, can create that that atmosphere and and that creates horror that leaves that impact of a negative emotional experience, if that makes sense. I hope it does. I hope that everybody tries their hand at writing horror at least once because I do think war is really fun. fun to write, and I’m a huge horror fan. I think core is really fun to read. And I, I always want more horror to be a lot more horror. And I think now is a is a great time. If you haven’t tried your hand at horror now is a great time to pick up a great horror read and read an indie press read an indie author is my suggestion, don’t read the mainstream bestsellers, they’re getting the reads, look for indie authors and look for first time authors of horror. Or you can start with our anthology that has a great mix of horror and fantasy and and everything in between, and a lot of different mashups. Or you can check out our E zine cinnabar moth literary collections.com. And it has just so many short stories, there does need to be time as a writer when you do spend time reading. And so if you want to, you know, check out more, I
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think I absolutely, absolutely, strongly suggest it. And I think everybody should try their hand out for at least once and see what comes out. And now’s the perfect time to do it. I think there’s so many October writing prompts that you could jump on one of those even though it’s late in the month and just do it for a week right and see what comes out and look at looking look at her as a way to sort of, if you don’t normally write horror as a way to be a palate cleanser, and get you writing something different and looking at your creativity in a different way and interacting with your muse in a different way. And explore all the sides of yourself as an author even if it’s just you know, a little bit of flash, even if it’s you know, something that’s three sentences long. I think there’s there’s room to experiment and this is a great season to do it and, and increase content for social media, you know, do a bit of Dubin horror flash, and then put it up there and put it out there for the world to see. And if you’re inspired by this, you know, tag us on social media. And I will always make sure either myself or the person running our social media, I run our Twitter and then we have someone else who runs our other social media platforms for us. But we will always interact with any posts that Todd has. So if you do decide to write a bit of horror, or you know a bit of flash warn you put up on your social, be sure to tag us at cinnabar moth pub, and we will be sure to like it and comment and give you our thoughts. Or you can drop a bit of flash down in the comments. And we’ll be sure to give it a read and comment and like and while you’re at it, be sure to like and subscribe and turn on your notifications so that you get notified every time we upload a video. And we have videos like this where we’re demystifying the writing process and the publishing process. And we also have great interviews with authors and artists and poets and everybody who’s related to all things publishing and books. So that was us for today. Thank you so much for hanging out and listening all the way to the end. Thank you oh my beautiful cinnabar moth so any kind of moth you’d like to be or you can even be a butterfly, but I’m not ride carrying. I’m not trying to bite her rhyme bye