Episode 67: B.C. Foster Interview

Rasta
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the Writers Triangle, Cinnabar Moth;s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with BC foster a very talented pen and ink artist. BC How are you doing today?

BC
I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having me. This is incredible.

BC
Thank you for coming on. It’s a pleasure to have you. So I want to get right into it and ask you, how did you decide to be an artist? What got you into it?

BC
Wow, that’s a that’s a big question. I, you know, I’ve been a pretty creative kid my entire life. But you know, art and also musician. That all came late, really late as far as me taking it. Seriously, but when I was a kid, I, I had a really big imagination. All I want to do is live in some kind of a fantasy as far as watching cartoons or a movie or, or just just playing with the Star Wars toys. You know, I remember one of my mom was like, when I was like, five my mom came in and she she said, All right, turn off the Popeye cartoons, you know? And I remember gone. Okay, yeah. So I turned them off. And I didn’t want to go outside and play. I just wanted to, you know, stay in it. And, and, you know, I’m five or six. And I remember looking around going well, I don’t have a Popeye toy. What do I do? You know, and there’s a little Fisher Price like phone there with a red handle, you know, the old Fisher Price toys. And I remember ripping off the phone from the cord. And, and I was in my mind, I’m like, Okay, well, one side of it looks like his shoulder. And the other side looks like his fist. So I’ll just play with this and just watch the rest of it in my head. And that’s the first time I did that. And I’ve been doing it ever since. I mean, to this day, it’s I found action figures and toys boring because I was such a visual kid that I could see the rest of the cartoon or the movie or the thing in my head just playing. Like, just something that was almost like a compass, you know, just to hold on to and just a focus. And people would growing up. They’d like really, what do you what are you doing with that? And it always be some strange height, like a phone or a, you know, what are you doing with that thing? And it looks like you’re just fiddling with it in the air. And I’m like, Oh, well, I’m playing the in that case, I’m watching Popeye and as a kid you don’t think you’re writing and directing in your mind? You’re you’re just playing like you would have playing with the toy but I found action figures very limiting from my imagination. And then from there it went on to like, you know, oh, look, you know, you know, I grew up in the 80s. So he man was everywhere. And I realized, Oh, the he-man arm I remember asking my dad Can you buy me a hitman and I remember thinking I don’t want the he-man What I want is his left or right arm so I can take it off the handle. And now it’s a muscular arm in my mind that can be Superman, Batman, Green Lantern anyone I wanted. So it was far more valuable the so as a kid I would have drawers full of arms and little things from different toys and stuff. So my my parents were concerned are like what is going on with you? We’re not going to buy you toys it because all they see is this kid breaking up toys. And I couldn’t I couldn’t articulate what was happening. But I remember going Why can’t every why doesn’t everyone do this like this is far more valuable. I would literally throw out the rest of the toy. Because it was clunky. Like the arms of the it didn’t. I wanted it to. Yeah, I wanted it to be kinetic. I wanted it to move. I wanted it to dance, I wanted it to end the less the less of the toy I had and I had just enough to hook me in that arm or even a head or something. And the rest of it just fell into place. So years and years and years of that year. I didn’t realize until later that you’re really honing this this being able to see everything in your mind very clearly. You see the city that Batman’s in, you’re seeing all the thing like any kid would play, but I think as a young age, I really took it to another nother level we would have car trips. I and my brothers would want their Game Boys and things like that and they would look at me and I would literally hours in the car playing with, you know, it’d be the oddest thing, a little orange hammer from the Fisher Price medical kit that was perfect. I still have one I still use it. It’s perfect. I can do a head and a face and an arm and a leg and, and suddenly I can watch an entire movie directed by me in my head, you twirling now all you see in the car is me twirling around this little orange hammer. And my brothers are looking at me like what is going on? You’re, you’re weird, you’re weird. And you would try and explain it and you would almost feel bad for people. Like I said, like, you can’t do that. Like, like, it’s really fun.

BC
Like, it’s better than anything because you’re you’re kind of in charge of the whole thing you can, you can have, you know, Marvel and DC crossovers, you can have all these, you know, fun things you can do and not worry about anything, you’re just your mind is your only limitation. Now, years later, my dad one time came home with this big box of comic books. And it was one of the greatest days of our lives, me and my brothers we we opened up this box and he said, Oh, you know, some my dad was in military systems, some Lieutenant gave me this box of old comic books. And yeah, I thought you boys would want them. And we ravaged that thing. We looked in there and was a whole new you know, I didn’t know what columns, comic books work. And I’m looking at him and my brother, you know, I have another brother who’s an artist, and it’s fantastic. And but we both were kind of kind of reborn that day is like, look at these images. Look at these colors. Look at these. Like, this isn’t this is crazy. This is so great. And we just ate them up. And, but even then, I wasn’t drawing I wasn’t the kid drawing at school. I wasn’t the musical kid at school, all through school. I was just I felt like, I felt like a boat without a rudder. I just I didn’t know what I wanted to do. All I knew what was I what I don’t want to do. I don’t want to go play football. I don’t want to play basketball. I don’t want to. I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to do that. The closest thing I came to as a kid to an answer for anybody. I remember being 10 We’d go around the table. We have a bunch of brothers and sisters. So we’d go around the table and everyone would say what they wanted to do. My brother being an I want to be a fighter pilot and other brother who I want to, I want to be a painter and this and that and cool. They would get to me and I would just be like, Well, I think I want to be a muppet tear. And my dad looked at me like, well, if I can’t be a muppet tear, if I can’t work for Jim Henson, then maybe I can go work for Walt Disney. Because as a kid, I just wanted all that imaginative. I just really respond to storytelling. I just wanted to tell me a story, dad, or good joke, or I just I love that, you know? And that’s all I wanted to do. I just I just want to watch cartoons. I just want to watch a great movie on to this day on a Saturday. My big treat is okay, I’m gonna go watch some, some old movies I’m going to watch and I just love visuals. I love dance, I love kinetic things, things that are moving things that are in motion. And that’s part of why my parents always called what I did with like arms and orange hammers fiddling. I hated that word. But they’d say what do you know? Or you’re gonna go fiddle now? And I’m like, Yeah, I am. And I remember being sick. I remember being 1718 years old. And my dad looking at me like I was Linus from the peanuts holding his blanket. Like, you got to stop this now. This is okay, you’re getting to a point where and I felt really? Like like self, you know, like, oh conscious about it. Like okay, maybe I can’t you know, maybe this is this is weird. I got to stop doing this. But I can never stop because nothing was that good. Nothing was better than that. It’s a very personal private kind of space and you can get lost in it for hours. Heavy, a healthy fantasy life. So later, I started I would say I was about 17 years old 18 late for I think a lot of artists. A lot of people usually they know really early on. But I remember I enjoyed comic books so much. I was like I’m gonna try and do that. Let me just try me and I’m when I mean that I don’t mean The ambition of I’m gonna try and be an artist. I was just like, let me just see if I can draw something from my, my brain. You know, because I’m seeing these things. I sat down at the kitchen table and I was terrible. Like, everyone was awful. Like, I can’t, I can’t get Yeah, right. I can’t get my hands around this.

BC
And I can’t do any of that and like, okay, but instead of just stopping, I was like, well, let me go talk to my big brother and my big brother. You know, he was always the artist in the family. It was kind of his space was the artist. I’m the artist of the family. And he was phenomenal. I’m not Yeah, he’s amazing. He’s fantastic. But, but he early on was drawing and things like that. He’s got a great imagination, too. He never fiddled or anything like that, but he had his own talents. So I’d go to him and, and, you know, he would give me a point or two. And I’d be like, okay, and then I realized, well, let me just to get my bearings. I’m going to like every comic book kid does. You open up a comic and you copy you go, Okay, I’m gonna look at that. And I’m gonna try and do it and see. And that that opened up like, Oh, I see what they’re doing is like, Oh, I see like, oh, okay, like just trying to, and then I remember being very, you know, and I random my brother, acid, look, look what I did. And he rightfully so said, Well, you didn’t do that. You copied someone else who did it? And I remember as a kid going, Ah, all right. Okay, it doesn’t count. Like, I need to learn this for myself. So I immediately it’s tough. You know, it’s the tough time of like, okay, you need to, you know, always learn, like, I’m a big fan of like, to this day, I’m learning I’m a, I’m a student forever, you know, I will never be I, I always have something new to learn. And, but to this day, I’ll look at incredible artists, and just, you know, my brain naturally, just like a sponge, like, ooh, that’s cool. I like what they’re doing their store that for later I like, I like, like, that’s a good, you know, like, something to feed on or just be inspired by. But at a very early age, I was very concerned about I don’t want to copy anybody. I don’t want to look like a popular comic book artist. I knew at an early age, like, take all the influence, but try and take all these little things and put them all together and make them your own and try and have a unique style early on. Yeah. That’s a long answer to your first question. I’m so sorry.

BC
I think it’s interesting to hear about the origins of kind of your creativity blo- was there and always, you know, blossoming and growing, and being made use of the medium that you did it through was very abstract at first.

BC
Yeah, it was. It really is. And, you know, I would, I love writing in school, I love music. Later on, a friend of mine introduced me to just song writing, you know, hey, here’s, you know, he would play guitar and I had a piano at home and, and suddenly, telling stories was a lot of fun and doing it in a way that was musical. And it was a little more communal than just drawing. It was, you know, it was, oh, I’m playing with people. And I’m learning harmonies, and I’m learning coffee houses and open mics. And there’s a community of creative people that you share this with. And that was a whole other side of my life. And that was around the same time I sat down to that kitchen table started drawing, they both both are equally important to me, there’s not one that really dominates the other. I think as I get older now, I think I’m resting more into drawing and the art and climbing that mountain. But I’ll always write songs I’ll always I there’s a there’s something about it that’s unlike anything else. And but as far as drawing goes, it’s extremely personal space is extremely. You don’t I don’t let many people in people you know, I want to watch a draw or these time lapse things are tough for me these these videos of people time lapse, and let me and I’ll get requests and it’s really sweet of people. I totally get it. I would love to see. I love watching it with people. But you know, I remember you know, I’m a big movie guy. And Spielberg said in one of his making, she was like I want to a commentary. Hurry. And he never has, he won’t do a commentary through et, or through close encounters. And he said, just because it’s, that’s my space, and it’s, I’m extremely protective of it. And I remember go, boy that really like, oh, I connected that I understand that. very weary of things influencing me negatively, I’m very scared of, you know, sometimes a compliment can be just as dangerous as someone you know, putting your stuff down and making you feel inadequate. There’s sometimes someone going, Oh, I really liked this, you should do more of that. And your brain naturally goes, well, I want to please people, because I’m a middle child and a big family.

BC
So all I want to do is this be the funny one and tap dance into Hey, look at me, I’m here to. So you carry that with in your entire life. And when you know, I learned at an early age, no, there’s only there’s only one person to please if you’re not excited about something, there’s no point in doing it and trying to make other people happy is a constant fight. It’s a constant like, no, no, I don’t want to, I don’t want to hear a good review. And people are very sweet. And I appreciate that. I’m not, I’m just trying to say that you have to be very, I have to be very guarded with everything negative things that come in and learn from them go cool. That’s good. You know, don’t let your ego stop you from learning. Like, oh, that’s a good note, you know, but at the same time, be wary of, of people trying to steer the ship for you going, Oh, why don’t you do more of that? You should, you should do more of that this other stuff isn’t? It’s not my thing. And you know, it does, letting all that in is, for me, it’s, it can be detrimental. And that’s how you start to have a block. That’s how you start to you look at a white piece of paper and you’re like, Oh, what do I do? I don’t have a lot of problems with that. Because I try and protect that space. When I sit down to a white piece of paper, it’s extremely exciting. It’s always very much. Wow, opportunity. Look at this white piece of paper. It can be anything.

BC
A space for you to create.

BC
Yeah, it’s inviting. It’s, I have have everything I need right here. And it can be a post it note at the bank and a pen. It can be I’m a big fan of sketches. I’m a big fan of you know, some of my favorite sketches. And some of them, you know, people will ones people really, really like I remember going oh, that’s so funny, because I did that sketch on a terrible piece of paper lined beat up paper in the middle of a meeting at work. And I should have been paying attention at the meeting. But I decided to draw. And, but I was relaxed. I was relaxed because it’s on a terrible piece of paper. So what that does is your mind relaxes, you’re not hard on yourself. And suddenly your hand is flowing better. And suddenly your mind is open to pen strokes that you’re going oh, oh, and you’re writing this like, oh, that’s that’s, that’s turning out a lot. And you go wow, why is it on this terrible piece of paper in the middle of a meeting on a Tuesday. And it’s a pink post it note, you know, like what? And I feel like this is like one of the best catches ever done. And you realize later all that’s because I was relaxed. And I wasn’t there was no pressure on myself. There was no pressure on people around me. I think I’d have a real tough time, in a job sense creativity in a creative way if that makes sense. I don’t like boxes. I don’t like here’s your assignment. I’m not good at assignment. You know, people ask, do you do commissions? And I’m like, I really I don’t like doing commissions because it’s an assignment. Hey, would you everything from draw my dog fluffy to draw me a great Indiana Jones. And it’s like, okay, but now you’ve let you’ve let something else in that space. You know, and and, and now you feel a bit of some pressure and of course I can do it. I’ve done it. I have you know, I give myself assignment like Okay, I think I’ll it’d be fun just for me to draw, you know, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker just for me, just for fun, you know? And I can do that. but it’s it’s one of those things that nothing’s better than absolute freedom when you go to draw, and that’s why all my stuff is, you know, there’s, there are no titles to my work. I decided a long time ago No, I don’t, I don’t want I don’t want to influence anybody when they see this drawing, I don’t, is it a good guy is it a bad guy and people who don’t know, my stuff is very, the origin is very pulp comic book, but with definitely some surrealism mixed in. And black and white because I, you know, I adore color, but color is extremely, that’s a whole other, it’s like, you know, there’s the Rubik’s cube, and then there’s the, like, 25 Rubik’s Cube, or whatever it is, with all the little little cubes, you’re going boy, there’s a lot of layers here. And I have the most respect for people who play in paint and color and, but I’m more fascinated with lines and, and textures and patterns and dots and, and, you know, separating spaces with, with it with shadow and light. And then and then and then not just trying to do it with, with this pattern here will will, will be different from this pattern here. And, and suddenly you do that enough and, and it’s extremely different, you know, but yet it’s still like it’s still like a ninja with swords or something, you know, but it’s, it’s not important what the what the who the character is necessarily and it goes back to I love stories so much that I don’t title them and I don’t I don’t have names for characters and I don’t people, you know, are you going to have a comic book?

BC
Well, no, I, I enjoy the openness, I’m trying to invite someone who’s looking at the work to bring your bring your fiddling in, bring your imagination and look at it like you do fine art not that I’m a fine artist by any means. But you look at fine art and invites you to think it invites you to be creative. And if I title an art piece, I’m helping you steer your ship. Now, I’m saying well, this characters this and, and the here’s the story and this and that. Let me let me share something with you. You know, this is what I tell my friends all the time I my favorite thing to do when I was a kid was you know, I was an 80s. Kid. So a big thrill is to go into Toys R Us, right? You go into Toys R Us and me and my brothers would go to the of course the action figure section with with Masters in universe and Star Wars and GI Joe. And when the new wave of figures came out, I remember running up to the island looking at all the images of all the different characters. And my brain was just on fire with possibilities. Who is this? What is this? What is that guy who is this guy. And you’d bring the toy home and you’d take it out and you’d play with it a while and you’re like this is and suddenly your imagination is creating this story for this character that you’re holding in your hands. Some some of them I wouldn’t rip off the arms I’ve actually played with the toys. But, and your your imagination is going crazy. Well, then the new season of GI Joe would come out season four or whatever. And that character you’re holding is in the cartoon. And you’re all all this is gonna be fantastic. My guy I love playing with this guy. And then you’d see the cartoon and you’re so excited, like, Okay, what’s he gonna be like? And the voice was weird. Or he was a bad guy. And you thought he was a good guy. Or, you know, or sometimes it was even the opposite where you know, in sometimes, you know, the character can be better than what you thought, you know. But oftentimes, it was like, Oh, well, that’s not who I had had in my head at all. And it’s different now. And you go back to your toy and you’re looking at it and going oh, it’s it’s not the same. Where did my guy go? He’s gone. He’s gone. This new guy is here. And that magic is so important that I sound like a little seven year old. I’m sorry, but that magic is so important that when I draw i People ask me what’s happening here who is this? What’s going on? And I just I know what’s happening for me but I’ll never share that. I don’t I don’t I want you to have that. Go have it be you know, have it be a good guy. Have it be a bad guy ever be Whatever you want, you know, to put it in very simple terms. It’s not important. It’s like a Frank Frazetta painting, not that I’m anything like him. But what I loved about his work was, you saw you saw these people in peril. The these these, Conan the Barbarian guys, and, you know, these these warriors and women who are chained to a thing, and there’s a big snake and it’s coming in. And you’re right, you’re, you’re right at the moment of disaster. And that’s when he takes a snapshot for you. And all those pulp on you know, I loved comic book covers, were always the most fun, right? And when you see a comic book, it’s always the best. The best thing is the cover, because you’re looking at it. Yeah, it’s inviting.

BC
The comic book covers and your exposure to them. Did That influence you when it came to the type of art that you’re citing, because I know you’ve mentioned that you go into like ink and everything.

BC
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, you know, I, I dove into, you know, when you’re about 20 to 23, you want to be taken seriously, right? You want to use in everything you’re doing because all you’re doing is I want someone to take me seriously. I’m no longer a kid, you know, that feeling? Or everyone’s like, you know, all right, all right, yeah. I’m gonna write really dark songs. And people would be like, Whoa, this guy’s deep. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna, you know, tell I’m gonna write about things I don’t know anything about? Because? Because, you know, and you go through that process? Well, art is no different. You, you kind of like, well, let me it’s not important, unless it’s fine art is is what the society kind of feeds you is that it’s not important, unless it’s Picasso or Jackson Pollock or something that’s, you know, those and beyond check. Yes, so beyond challenging that it can be intellectualized for the ages. So I started, you know, and you know, I have no problem telling people I am not. I have, no, I have no professional education in art, I didn’t, I didn’t go to art school, I didn’t do anything like that. So and I am not putting down education, education is incredible. If you can go to art school, do it, you know, just understand, you have to keep yourself you have to hold yourself, protect yourself, because part of their job is to beat you up for the, for the future as an artist, like people are going to give you bad critiques and this and that we’re going to help you with that in school. Well, you know, a lot of people go to art school, like me are extremely fragile people. So you start beating down on them enough, they’re not going to want to do this thing anymore. They don’t believe in themselves. I think if I had gone to art school, I wanted to I just couldn’t afford it. And I decided, well, I’ll just do this, I’ll just do it like Goodwill Hunting, I’ll just go go to the library and spend a buck 75 on, you know, overdraft fees.

BC
Just learning as much as I can sponging all this out then going to art school. But again, that’s not knocking education at all. The thing I would have loved most about art school is the community meeting other artists and being with because it can be very lonely. And that’s where my music came in. I was like well I get it in that sense. But back to what we were talking about. I think it’s it’s important to keep a keep those things open. For me. I was I was doing in my early 20s to be serious, I was doing surrealism, I thought well what I can do is really started I’d take in and I post those along with my my other work is some of the earlier stuff which is more it’s not comic book based, it’s more just study of pattern and a lot of them are actually they’re actually penciled or LED but I have an ink and bigger pieces. And I had this great job where I was was you know a teller you know on the phone, not a telemarketer, but I was working for the Postal Service so people would order stamps and they would call in and make an order from a catalog. Well, after a while the cat that catalog was you know, no one was ordering from it. So I would sit there eight hours a day, and no one was calling in until the new catalog would come up. So I realized, Oh, this is free art space, they didn’t care what I did. Or like, you can play guitar for all we care, but just be here in case the phone rang. And so I, I would just draw, and draw and draw. Now, that was a great discipline. Because when you’re, instead of reading magazines, if you can draw every day for eight hours a day and learn that discipline, it’s going to really help you a lot of its discipline, as far as your mind is just kind of setting your mind to going no, this is, I have nothing better to do than to concentrate on this piece right now. I’m not going to think about the next one. I’m not going to think about the last one. The most important thing right now is this drawing. So I would do the surreal stuff. And I was the problem with the surreal stuff is as much as I enjoyed it. And as much of an education it was I learned a lot and I really got my chops down as far as concentrating on a piece for eight hours a day for three weeks. Yeah, no, that’s a lot of time on a drawing, you know, and for some people, for painters, that’s like, well, that’s no big deal. Like, I paint like, but but for for a pencil drawing, you know, it’s there’s a lot of work there. And I realized that for fun for recess. I was drawing superheroes and all of the things I like to draw like, Okay, well now, okay, the stuff that no one takes seriously, including myself, I’m just gonna go and draw, you know, Batman or Superman or just a guy I just want to draw a warrior with swords and you know, just whatever, a pirate whatever, anything. And I realized, you know, your a couple years went by, and I was showing another artist, some my surreal stuff. And I pulled out these surreal drawings. And he’s like, Oh, wow, go. That’s great. That’s great, right? And out of my portfolio, poured out all these sketches of fun things.

BC
Oh, you’re and I’m, oh, my recess, and I’m, I’m embarrassed. I was like, Oh, yeah. And I start putting it back in the portfolio. And I’m like, Oh, I’m so I’m so sorry. Yeah. That’s just for fun. And he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what’s that? And he, he, he started looking through that, and he got energized. Everyone loves fun. Yeah, yeah. And it’s okay to have fun. I realized in that moment, oh, I don’t have to be tortured. I can have fun and actually take it seriously all at once. So in that day, and you know, it was a good it was a good day, because I realized, what am I doing? I can, I should I should concentrate more than this. And have fun. The whole reason you’re doing this is to is to express yourself and be honest with yourself. Who are you? If, if that’s who you are, you know, to this day, I’m I kid you not. Rasta, I’m sitting here and there’s an orange hammer next to the phone right now. The orange hammer I fiddled with forever. You know, when I met my wife, I had to tell her about it. I felt like it was like, you know, I did tell her some dark, deep, dark secret. And she said to me, I am fascinated. I am in. Tell me more. Tell me more about it. Yeah, she’s like, This is crazy. Tell me more about this. She goes, I want to see you do it. Like do it. And it was something I was because we met I was 30 at that point. And you know, we’re about to get married. And I realized, Oh, I gotta explain these things that you know, I would do, I would be 70 and I have a panic attack if I couldn’t find my orange hammer. If it was on the couch or something like where to go. You know? And my family be like, you need help. You need help. And I’m like, You don’t understand. So, so I’d have to explain it to her and she did a sheet she was fascinated by and she was like, No, this is kind of the core of your creative being. It’s like this. This is where you this is your Genesis and truly was when I was five I started doing it. And so I decided, well, it was a great it was a great sign. I’d stepped to really get into more fine art avenues. And during that time of surreal work, you know, I did some pieces that to this day people really really respond to I think, you know, even more than the, the pulpy kind of stuff. And once in a while I dip into that, just to do it, but I realized I wasn’t excited enough to keep that up about it. I was flat. I was kind of, I had no compass, I had no TrueNorth.

BC
I felt creatively like, I don’t know what’s next. Okay, I’m gonna try. And what’s interesting to me and I was struggling to keep things interesting now. And if you’re working on a drawing, that you’re going to work on for eight hours a day for three weeks, it better be interesting to you. Because I have a rule I don’t. If I start a drawing, I will finish it even if I’m not excited about it. So you’re very careful when you when you work. You’re very careful. I am I’m very careful about it. Am I excited about it i is keep it exciting. Every line matters. Every line matters when I draw today, yesterday, I was drawing something in one line made a difference. And I had to erase it and keep thinking oh, and when I figured out that one line. I was good. I was excited. Again. I was like, Ooh, like one little thing, can really can really make a difference. And that’s fascinating to me. That’s the high you get. That’s really that’s really exciting. It can all come down to the smallest little thing that no one else would pick up. But I but it matters to me. It matters to me. Nothing’s better than life in a drawing. If it feels like it’s breathing, the eyes are alive. You’ve got to keep that excitement for every corner that drawing that that’s that’s what I’m constantly working on today. But that day when that guy was like, No, this is this is great. I want to see more of this, you know?

BC
It it didn’t make me go, you know, I wasn’t in a place where I’m like, Well, I’m gonna just do what you want. Because I want to please people, I’m a middle child. It wasn’t so much that it was just so much like someone going no, no, no. I can tell just within the drawing that you’re more excited about this. And he didn’t say that, but you could see that in his enthusiasm. He was very much like No, no, this this, this is what you want to do. Keep like that’s really exciting. And, and secretly it is what I wanted to do. So I realized that day I was like, No, you know, it, doesn’t it. Again, that’s a negative source influencing me that’s ego of someone else that I’m carrying with me that I have to drown out and not listen to those voices because everyone’s insecure. You know, I’m an artist who didn’t go to art school who really could not really have many educated intelligent discussions with people about fine art. But But I have to know that about myself. But I’m also extremely respectful of it is respectful of people who know it. It amazes me I was never one for I loved history class because the stories but I was never wonder maintain or keep names or dates in my head as the to this day. To this day. I forget my own name. Yeah, but I love I love Edward Hopper. I love NC Wyeth. I will talk about storyteller Norman Rockwell. I mean these guys, you know, the one image and you have an entire movie in your head. I but I also love Jackson Pollock. I love the kinetic energy of Jackson Pollock. It’s a different it’s a different look into his work. As far as he is not telling you a story. It’s here’s the rhythm. Can you see the music? That’s Jackson Pollock. Can you see the music? Look at it. It’s moving. It’s it’s kinetic. And it’s still at the same time. How exciting is that? When something is still it’s not moving. But an image is is moving at the same time as fast as a freight train. That’s You’re amazing. And that excites me. That’s, that’s amazing. When I was a kid, I loved movies like, West Side Story, because of the dance. I didn’t even realize it. But the way they move, look at other moving. It’s the kinetic energy of people in motion. You know, I’m a huge Star Wars fan. And for those of you out there, who you know, Star Wars for me is like politics and religion. I don’t bring it up at parties. I don’t talk to because, people, it’s so big that people have their opinions, you know, and you have very strong opinions. I’m such a sponge for kinetic energy that all of Star Wars I love the prequels I love the sequels. I love the original trilogy, with all my heart. Original trilogy is kind of the heart of the whole thing. And everything else is just is just frosting on the cake. It’s amazing. And I think Lucas was a absolute genius. What I learned I learned a lot of lessons from watching the behind the scenes of all kinds of movies, especially Star Wars and the creative all the creatives, making those movies there. There are so many levels, you know, people you know, what inspires me as an artist, I, I find just as much inspiration of watching an actor studio, or watching the great British baking show, or watching someone talk about dance, I don’t care what it is. We’re all if you’re a creative of some kind. If you’re into woodworker, if it’s all the same, everyone’s doing the same thing as far as learning how to put themselves into their medium, as honestly as they can. And yeah, it’s

BC
Like you’ve mentioned before, you’re very moved by storytelling.

BC
Yes.

Rasta
Storytelling through dance, the movies, different media, have always expressed something. There’s this deep form of expression. That has to take study, it takes effort to be able to have that expression really manifested in what you do. Right?

BC
Yeah, yeah, you have to you know, I want to tell young people kill your ego as soon as you can. Kill it. It’s going to do you no favors. Because you’re gonna get in your own way. Be humble. Listen, learn. Take it all in. Find find art and find beauty in every everything. I love watching the old Christmas specials, Rankin bass every year. The artwork and the old Christmas specials is incredible. And there’s some weird Christmas specials, man, there’s the Irish, Irish, you know, the leprechaun Christmas and all these really weird, but I sit and watch them and go, Wow, the, the art in these is fascinating. You know, when you go to put something down. When you go to say I hate that movie. When you go to say I don’t like that book. I don’t like that art. It’s just as important for me to understand why. Why do I not like that. And oftentimes, it had nothing to do with the art. It has something to do with me. You know, and, you know, the art critic, the movie critic, and I’m not putting down critics. Do your thing. I think it’s a form of expression that is important. And it can be done extremely well. But remember always that, you know, you make a movie, you spend two years on it. You wrote directed produced it, put all your money in it. And it’s your whole life. And suddenly it’s in the big screen. You know, and some art critic who matters is going to go see your movie today at noon. And he has a he has a he has a fight with his wife. He stubbed his toe. His his dog poops in the middle of the living room. He drives and drives to the theater and he is having a terrible day and he is about to watch your movie. Now remember, if it’s a comedy, you’re in trouble. Because this guy is going to come in with all his stuff. Because we’re people. We’re people we come in with all our stuff. I listened to people who don’t like the the sequel movies. And the prequels I remember living through the prequel era of the Star Wars, you know that I back to Star Wars. I remember living through that era, and I would have a Phantom Menace t shirt. And I remember getting all kinds of heat. People like, what are you doing? And I would be like, what’s that? Oh, yes, exactly. You know, exactly. And, and I love that movie it to this day, it’s one of the ones I watch most. And I try and tell people, you know, it’s so fascinating because I learned this like, Wow, a lot of these things are things you pick up or you’re reading the internet, or, or you’re you’re focusing on the wrong things, or you’re not listening to the creator of it. You know, there are plenty of documentaries about why George did what he did. And, and every every question I had during that time was answered creatively. And I went, Oh, okay, well, that makes a lot of sense. And maybe I’m getting in my way a little bit. Now. It’s okay not to like things. There are a lot of things that I don’t care for. But I’m very careful about understanding why. And sometimes that’s a bigger lesson. Is, is all well, what did I like about that movie? And what would I not do if I ever made a movie? That’s a great lesson there. Oh, okay. Now, and that doesn’t say anything about the movie. I’m not putting down the movie. I’m just saying, what makes me me why I would make different decisions. And understanding those distinctions. When you really if you’re a creative, you should have a lot of empathy for all creatives. If you don’t like something or if you’re putting something down or it’s just not your taste. That’s okay. It’s good to do but, but don’t put that on the creative. Just understand that you’re a different concoction. You’re a different drink. You know, you’re you’re a beer and then they might be a pina colada. You’re just coming from different places. And things you don’t understand. You can learn from a lot. And the end sometimes I went, Oh, wow. When I really investigated something I didn’t like, I learned to love it. I you know, man, I love movies so much. I don’t mean to keep bringing up different movies, Mr. Holland’s Opus, if anyone’s ever seen that my favorite scene in the entire movie, Richard Dreyfus, he’s talking to his wife. And he’s like, you know, this music teacher gave me a Miles Davis record, I think it was miles. And he was like, you know, go listen to this. And the first time you spun it, he hated it. And then he listened to it again, he hated it, and listened to it again. And again and again. He’s suddenly couldn’t stop listening to it. He had to keep listening to it, something was something was burrowing in him. And he was like, oh, and it. We are and that’s why I say kill your ego. You don’t know everything. I’m going to be 80 years old, and I’m going to be a moron. I don’t know everything. And especially if you’re 17, you know, nothing, that I know nothing now and I’m, you know, in my 40s You know, you have to, it’s a healthy way to go where you, you’re constantly don’t land anywhere necessarily. You’re just constantly listening. I just want to listen and just let let me learn from this. And, and my, what I come to won’t be what someone else comes to and that’s okay. That’s all right. We’re on different or in different movies. That’s fine.

BC
Yeah, idea landing into it comes to a different place. That’s also true for not just your understanding of other people’s expression, but also for how you decide to express yourself. Right. And so you mentioned before that you did the more abstract art and then you that you also had the more character or and the comic style and that you connected and matched better with and so that those are two different forms of expression. And one of them you didn’t like as much for yourself for your own expression of your art and your creativity. Right. So how did you how many different styles did you explore before he finally decided that ink art was kind of your comfortable place?

BC
I you know, in high school, it was really when I started going with So with the you know when you start to draw you what you can you can do a lot of different things drawing is I think the kind of the the for painting and proceed in the sculpting and things like that even you know, people who want to make movies you know storybook storyboarding and things like that, you know, it’s a, it’s a great thing to pick up. Just because it for me, it’s kind of the, it’s the middle, it’s the sun and everything else orbits around it, because you’re learning how to take what’s in your mind and put it down on a piece of paper. So early on, I didn’t I was again, I was even creatively, I was rudderless. I just I was in a boat now like, Okay, I know I like this thing. I don’t know how seriously to take it I’ll probably just be flipping burgers for the rest of my life. So this I have to have fun with because I’m very prepared to be a starving artist. That’s fine. That’s not important to me. What’s important to me is I’m honest with it, and I’m not making things I don’t believe in. So I worked with paint early on I worked with oils and acrylics and and and all of the things you’re supposed to do. Okay, this is a palette knife. Oh, that’s cool. Like you know, and then sculpting boy you know, sculpting if I told my wife if I if if there was if I had the room and a place to get real dirty. Boy I would love to sculpt because you know going back to fiddling with an orange hammer I see it it’s three dimensional it’s moving I’m the remember when you’re when I’m fiddling or playing with a toy even you can anyone can relate if they played with an action figure, your vision is the camera you’re discovering angles I’m below the character now I’m above the character. I’m added up profile I met so your your your head is already geared towards a three dimensional view of whatever it is you’re looking at. So So I always thought that sculpting would be fascinating. And I did some of it. It’s just there’s so much process in it. Yeah, there’s so much thanks I just didn’t have outside of school. And again, that’s why art school is amazing. A lot of people who are creatives they find their way because if they’re at the right age, and they’re they’re subject to all this incredible art and people when they go to art school, and and that’s what’s great about school is hey, here’s your here’s a kiln and here’s, you know, here’s here’s a wheel and here’s you know, try this for a little while. No, don’t like it. Okay, why don’t you come to the dance department, Okay, why don’t you try acting, whatever, you know, and you get to taste all these things. And hopefully after four years, you discover what you really want to do. But for me, my I was very limited because I was I was broke. I worked odd jobs, my whole life from flipping burgers to working as a bank teller. And I didn’t have a lot of space and a lot of money to buy materials. Someone asked me just a couple days on Instagram, what grade papers this I’m like, I have no idea is this was a this was I don’t even know what the grade says the I don’t know anything about it. I just as and literally, you can tell on the piece of paper it was it was hotel stationery, it said the Hilton on it. And then you go, okay, and this is this is very punk rock, rock and roll. And this is where my music influence comes in. You don’t have a lot around you lean into it. I recorded all my albums, some of them on my cell phone because I don’t have anything. But then suddenly you realize, oh, all the great rock and roll and blues musicians didn’t have much either. They’re in a they’re in a little room or a microphone is just hanging from the ceiling. And they’re doing their singing in their heart out is more about the performance than it is the quality of the microphone. Well, I learned all those lessons through music and I applied them to my art. I don’t have anything I all my early drawings were were cut up pieces of paper from shred at the bank that I worked at. I was a bank teller. And they would cut up these pieces of paper from from old meetings. They’d be memos and they’d cut them in fours and sixes. So instead of buying Les Paul Stick notes because that was expensive. They’d say, Well, let’s take the shred. And you can write your little notes on this shred on the back. So everyone had these little squares of shreds. And you can see on my Instagram, the ones that are like little squares and little drawings. Those are literally from the days that I was a bank teller waiting for someone to come in. And I’m just standing there waiting for someone to cash your check. And I would take one of these little things and just draw, I drew all the time. Draw all the time. I’m so lucky. And I’m not putting them down. But I’m so lucky, I wasn’t into video games, I play Super Mario Brothers three for about 20 minutes. And then I got bored. I was never very competitive as a kid. My my, I was never really like who I got to win this thing I’m very into like, to this day, I don’t like reality cooking shows because everyone has to win something. Why don’t we have to win? Can’t we isn’t? Isn’t it just making the cake? Isn’t that the thing? Why does someone always in America have to win, you know,

BC
You touched on the sense of community that you’ve found with art and a sense of community that can be found, like with art school to explore different things is, you mentioned that you enjoy community. I think that’s kind of a contrast to competition, in some ways, or competition is very much you trying to be better than other people, whereas community is uplifting each other?

BC
Absolutely. That’s why I like the Great British baking show is yes, it’s a competition. Someone’s winning. But they’re low stakes. Everyone’s rooting for each other on the show. Everyone’s helping each other out. Everyone’s positive with each other. It’s not cutthroat. Why do we have to be cutthroat about this? And, you know, I would almost prefer the show to be a class. Can’t we just, you know, see how they started and see where they are at the end of the show where everyone just got better. One time I’m drawing and the girl comes up to me. And I’m just drawing a break room because I’m at work. And and she is very nice. She says, Oh, that’s really great. That’s really change. She’s watching me join us. Oh, thank you so much. It’s so nice of you. I appreciate it. And she says right after she does, but what are you doing with it? Like, I looked at her like What do you mean? Yeah, isn’t making the thing enough? No, no. You have to monetize it. It’s an it’s not worth anything until you can tell me how much you sold it for. That really bugs me. I have no and I have no ambition. You see on my Instagram, I have an Etsy shop. Now, that took me 30 years to I’m not I’m terribly I’m terrible about ambition to sell. Because you remember, I’m a guy working fry cook, I don’t need to, I don’t want anything to influence my art, especially money. I don’t want like, oh, I sold this, I should make more like that, because it’s sold. That’s how your brain that’s how people’s brains work. You know, and I’m not putting anyone down. That’s how we are. But I was kind of lucky. I didn’t play video games for hours and hours and hours and hours. And I was lucky that I didn’t have you know, great success in art early, where I’m selling things and stuff like that, because I learned the value of my freedom. Oh, all those things can be changed. And this is just for me purely remember, this is just for me. I’m not speaking for how should people should be. But what I learned for me as an artist is I have to be really free of shackles. When I go to look at that piece of white paper. And, you know, you know, I would sit at like I said I’d be at the bank and I would just draw all the time. The other thing I would I would tell people if no one’s asking for my for my opinions, or advice I really don’t have much advice to give but I will say this 90% of your art is the doing.

BC
Turn off the TV, turn off your phone, turn off the games. Tell your tell anybody. I’m going to be gone for two hours. I’m gonna go draw. I’m gonna go write a song on my guitar. I’m gonna go paint. I’m gonna go I have to, and then you realize you get addicted to it just like you do your video games or your books or whatever it is. You know, and I’m not dogging video games. There are so much amazing creativity in video games. Oh my goodness, I I look at video game art. And I’m just like, This is unbelievable. I could never come up with some of the stuff that people are coming up with. I have nothing but admiration for it. What I’m talking about is your time. You get 24 hours a day, and one day your train will Stop. And I draw like a man who knows he’s gonna get hit by a bus tomorrow. That’s how I go. I have a drawing behind me right now as soon as we’re done, I’m going to take it out. And I’m going to draw till about 530 today. And I’m taking time off to do it, I would have started an hour ago. But I realized that I’m in my 40s. One day I’ll be in my 60s and my hands can be shaking. I’m not going to be able to do it anymore. And that’s scares me a lot. And that’s why everything I want to be excited about and I, I want it to have energy and I want it to mean something even if the meaning is fun. Or it’s cute. Cute is fine. I love the Ewoks and return to the Jedi. I love cute. There’s nothing wrong with cute once in a while I’ll do a Christmas drawing or, or something that’s cute. There’s power in cute. It’s fine. It’s all good. Do it all. Don’t shackle yourself. Don’t Don’t be that 17 year old person who always tells yourself that’s not cool. I can’t do that. That’s not cool. It’s got to be edgy all the time. It’s gotta be punk rock. It’s like, no, there’s a place for that. That’s great. But remember to that one day that 17 year old boy will be a man who’s 35 and he will have a little daughter who wants to play tea with him. And he’s gonna go this is amazing. Oh, cute is good. The world is run by cute. It really is. Kittens and you see it in so many different ways. It’s so powerful. Don’t deny it. Don’t be embarrassed by it. Don’t be embarrassed by anything.

BC
My brother my older brother one times asked me and I’ll we don’t. He is a great artist and I have nothing but respect for him. But we don’t really know each other very well. These days. We don’t talk much. But when we do we try. And the older the older you get you, you really become just strangers who shared a childhood. And we’re two creatives and you think we connect better on things, but we were very different. But he would ask me. What are you listening to right now? Yeah. And oh, man, I just listen. I just found this great. Cindy law for a compilation. You know, and he looks at me like, what’s wrong with you? And and I’m like, What’s wrong with you? Why are you? Haha, exactly. Exactly. And now, you know, and I don’t think he thinks anything’s wrong with Cyndi Lauper. I think he’s just always, you know, some you know, I don’t mean to pick on my brother. He’s amazing. Yeah. But sometimes, I think sometimes people carry their 17 year old angry selves with them. And they I like to say, no one’s watching your movie, man. And what I mean by that is your ego, your decisions are still trying to appease some 17 year old self who’s still trying to be punk rock. Like it, no one’s watching. No one’s sitting there going, Oh, he lives. You know, you’re not in a movie. You’re not the hero in a movie. You can listen to Cyndi Lauper and no one will even know about it. You’re the one who’s stopping yourself from incredible art. Don’t let your pride stop you from watching incredible things that you’re not supposed to like. Like, Oh, that’s cute. See, I’m not supposed to like that. I’m I love vintage cartoons vintage animation. I will sit and watch for two hours. That Carebears cartoon from the 1980s. I’m in my 40s and someone’s could walk in and go, What are you doing? Like this is weird. And I go Yeah, it is weird. I totally acknowledge that. But I also understand some 50 year old 35 year old 40 year old person went into the office at the Carebears place back in the 80s and drew this stuff and wrote these stories and made it and it also brings me back to my childhood. All those things are valid. They’re real. It’s okay. We don’t have to be cool all the time. In our head. We’re so many people just don’t do things because they think well, I can’t do that. Why? No one’s no one cares. And in fact These days, it’s a great time because people embrace it more. And people go, Yeah, you know, there are grown men who love My Little Pony. Awesome, go do it fantastic. Go live your best life. Because your your train is going to stops. Don’t waste time on what other people think you should be watching. Don’t waste time on painting or drawing on something that you think your dad wants you to, or your best friend wants you to. Don’t waste your time. Listen to what gets you. I listen to what makes you happy.

BC
Be fine hat way I have a friend asked me one time. How do you start a drawing? How do you go about it? Like, are you? You know, do you think of something and you draw it? Oftentimes it’s not for me, it’s I call it like the cloud game, you know how we all look up at the clouds and you see a rabbit or you see a dog or something like that. I’m doing that with my pencil out. If I sometimes I love to draw, when I have nothing in my head, I almost blank out and start moving the pencil and let my imagination grab onto something. And that discovery for an entire drawing is so exciting. I didn’t there was no premeditation whatsoever. Now, sometimes I do sometimes I I think I want to, I want to draw this guy, right? I want to draw a cowboy. It’s as simple as that. I want to draw a cowboy. I want to go with a holster and I want the the cigar to hang and I want you know, I want all the things right. And you start to draw and, and it. I always laugh by the end of the drawing. It’s not anything like what I started out to be because when I first started drawing at the bank, remember, I didn’t have any pencils. I just had the beat up bad pins at the bank. And what was great about that was I couldn’t erase. I couldn’t start over. That’s great. Because you’re you you’re forced to, to accept, oh, I’ve been working on this drawing for three hours. I just messed up on the arm. I just messed up on his leg. It looks awful. What do I do? Do I throw out the drawing? No, I’m not gonna throw out the drawing. What do you do? Well, maybe it’s not an arm. Maybe he’s got a gun. Maybe it’s a or maybe it’s like this. Suddenly, it’s a robotic Android thing. And now you’re moving. your creative juices are going and you’re like, oh, oh, and then and then I can. And suddenly it’s way better than a cowboy. And it only came out of your mistakes. Sometimes, you know, as Jeff. Jeff Bridges said to Robin Williams, when they were making the Fisher King Robin Williams was new to acting still. And he he messed up. And they cut. And Jeff Bridges came up to him. And he said, next time you make a mistake, go with it. Keep going. Mistakes are a gift from God. And he’s so right, mistakes are good. Sometimes your mistake is going to be oh, oh my gosh, I never would have thought of that. But look, because you’re allowing your brain to be open to possibilities. And it’s like what I draw, it’s like I don’t surf, but I’m sure it’s like surfing where the wave the energy from the water is part of the decision making. It’s half of the relationship in the moment. And that second, the wave actually has control of what you’re about to do. I feel the same way with art. Let it flow with it, get, you know, go with the wave, not against it. See what the wave will bring you see what you can do with that wave. Get into a get get.

BC
Find a relationship with that drawn. Because always be open to always be open to changing. That’s why I’m not very good with assignment. Because suddenly I’m in a box my brother, my brother, the painter. He went to Massachusetts College of Art. And he took me when I was in high school because I had loved art and I wanted to go and I wanted to see all the things you know, and I again I was rudderless. I didn’t know really what I wanted to do, but I thought I did and that when you’re 17 years old, you want to be a comic artist, or you want to be you know an illustrator. I want to be an illustrator and I have all the because my heroes are Norman Rockwell and all these comic book guys You know, John Romita Jr. and Rick Leonardi, these are if you don’t know these guys go check them out. These are these great 80s artists. They’re They’re wonderful. Scott McDaniel anyway, he would take me and I’d ask him, please, please, please bring me to the illustration section. Because that’s what I want to do I want to I want to do something like that Disney or, or anything, I want to do that. And, and he said, of course, great. Let’s do it, you know, so he would go, and we would go and I walked in. And the first thing that struck me was it was all cubicles on this floor. I was like, huh, it’s like a business office. That’s strange. And then I’d walk through and, and I would see everyone’s stations, and they would have a Snickers wrapper, like tacked to their wall, or a Coca Cola can or all these the end, I realized, oh, that’s their heroes. Illustration is a company that says, hey, we need this, we need to sell it, we need you to use three colors, it needs to be in this little box. It needs to be Poppy, but not too, too Poppy. And we’ll let you go work on it for three weeks, and then we’ll let you know if we like it. And if we don’t, we won’t pay you. And we’re gonna go with someone else’s thing. Now, those restrictions to me as a creative, it flooded in like, Oh, that’s not what I want to do. I’m not good at that. You know, it’s a good, those are good exercises. Again, I’m into Excellent. I’ll give myself assignment for exercise. But as far as a life, something that energizes your engine for your life, that’s not something I want to do. And then my brother took me up to where he went to him. We he did his studies. It was the the fine art section. And you know, people get confused. When I say fine art. I don’t mean, you know, oh, I’m a fine artist, as in like, you know, it’s a term used like jazz, or, or, yeah, it’s a style. It’s like classical music. Jazz punk rock. One time I told a fellow artists I was like, Well, I think my stuff is a little more on the fine art side than in the illustration side.

BC
He took that as a knock on illustration, like, no, no, I’m in like, I was saying, I’m a fine artist. I’m like, No, I’m saying it’s a state of mind. I went up to his section, my brother’s section. And immediately we got at the elevator. And it was a it looked like a abandoned warehouse in New York City. And huge open floors with huge canvas, and paints everywhere. And people are one guy who, who was literally painting with ketchup and mustard on old pairs of jeans that he got to Goodwill, because he couldn’t afford canvas. And he was doing his work on these pairs of jeans. And my mind was blown at the freedom. Oh, the freedom now again, that every artist has you know, I say freedom everyone builds their own the challenges and and I’m not talking about lighting, none of that. Everyone wants to everyone’s pursuing something you’re always climbing some kind of mountain but you were doing it a for yourself and be in the most personal way possible. And you’re really digging deep and that really shook me. It made me understand Oh, I I really value my freedom. That’s what I value. Yes, I love illustration. I love those guys. I have nothing but I you know, I just drew a couple Christmasy cartoon things to put out at Christmas time because I am a big fan of cute I’m a big fan of Christmas I’m a big fan of cartoons. And I but I allow myself the freedom to do that I allow myself the freedom to have a dark piece that can haunt me and and I try and express that but I also in this lesson very next day can draw snowman who’s just happy that he’s alive for the season? Because he knows he’s gonna melt and there’s nothing wrong with that there’s nothing wrong with enjoying seeing, you know Carebears and also enjoying Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. I’m a huge True Crime fan like i There are different parts of your brain and the more you explore all of it, the better your work is going to be. The more you accept all of it, the more you think of think of creative things out there, be it cute, or be it be funny. Think of those things as colors that you don’t want to deny yourself. I want more colors. I want more crayons, I don’t want less. I don’t want to work with five I want to work with 500. You know, I heard Marilyn Manson not to pick on Marilyn Manson. That guy’s you know, I have no problem with it. But one time in an interview, it struck me. He said, I would never in an interview said somewhere like I would never use the word. And my first thought was, I don’t want anyone to take any words from me as a singer songwriter. And I wrote the song on one of my albums called happy. I think it’s called happy. And that’s the chorus. And my challenge to myself, the exercise was write a song where the were happy is the center of it. And it wasn’t a happy song. It was very much the opposite. But the point was, I need that word. Don’t take a word from me. I want all the colors I need. I need Sesame Street. I need the Muppets. I need I need Star Wars, I need these things to keep me keel. I need Tim Burton, I need golf, I need darkness, I need light, I need the contrasts. Contrast, I need that dark and I need light. And I need them to live in the same space, with energy and with motion. And, and, and at the end being still at the same time. That’s so exciting to me. And it’s more exciting when I have no rules. When I go to the next piece of white paper and I can go I can literally draw anything I want today without these voices in my head. That’s the other thing. I don’t know when we started talking. You asked me to do this. And I was very upfront. I said I’m actually a very private person. Yes, you did. I yeah, I’m very I value it. Not because I don’t like people, I love people. But I also am very scared of people. But when I say I’m scared of people I’m scared of I sponge up a lot of things I sponge up influence very quickly. And it takes a lot of work to overcome myself. When you’re influenced by something and if you let these voices and you’d be very careful voices you let in because they steer your ship for you and you don’t even know it. You know, at the same time you have to be open to learning and you’re not going to learn by caving yourself off as a hermit. So you do you do a balance be very careful. I would say to other artists bicker very careful about who you let into your very personal space who you listen to who you who you put on a pedestal Be careful about those things. I used to listen to podcasts, a lot of Star Wars podcasts. And I realized after years of it that I don’t want to do this anymore, because I was thinking their thoughts after a while when I would watch the movies. I would have their opinions and I remember that’s not my opinion. That’s what that guy said. podcast about Return of the Jedi. I don’t know if I grew up with it. And I found myself I couldn’t just enjoy Return of the Jedi anymore. All I’m listening to in my head. Were all the debates happening about Ewoks and and Anakin and all the things that the podcast feed on and I’m not putting it down. If you love that thing, go do it. I love the community for a long long time. But I had to turn it off because it was affecting my enjoyment of one of the greatest things I love to do which is watch Star Wars. I love I love escaping in it because it feeds all all my things I love lightsaber fights the motion of it. I love I love the little the art decoration of everything. I love how everything looks like is from a junk pile and then I loved in The Phantom Menace. Everything’s smooth and slick, like a beautiful boat, you know, or something that’s tailor made by hand. I love all those visuals. I love all of it. And what I don’t want is someone to come in and give their opinion. It’s like I tell my wife all the time. Star Wars is like Christmas morning, right? Everyone’s got their Christmas morning. What you don’t want is to invite people into your living room and tell you how to do Christmas morning. Oh, you should put the tree over there. And then you should have the gifts over that. Yeah, it’s all we all love Christmas. But this isn’t fun. And that’s why I say I don’t bring it up with people, because everyone has, rightfully so. And that’s wonderful. Everyone has a lot to say about these things, religion, politics and Star Wars. And that’s great. But I’ve realized, I’ve had enough of filling my head with other things like that, that don’t really serve me. Well. They actually hinder me and getting back to art, compliments and things like that are great. But sometimes I can feel them steering my ego. And I’m very scared of my ego. The best thing you can do as a creative is Kill it. Kill it, destroy it.

BC
I want to follow up on that a little bit as thing you talked about like receiving compliments, getting recognition for your art, right. Does that tie in to your interests when it comes to for example, winning an award? That type of thing interest you at all? Like, for example, if your art was out there, you have it on the world, right? And people say we think this is amazing. And we want to give you an award for that’d be something that you feel uncommon.

BC
I would I would feel definitely scared by it. Because I’m scared. Can you hear me? Did I? Oh, good. I would definitely. First of all, it’s a part of this. It’s really the farthest thing from my mind. Like I said to that girl, the work is the reward the this is what I’m doing that I’m making it those things you know, you have to be careful with that because you want people to know, oh, my goodness, of course, I acknowledge that you’re being so kind, and you’re giving me an award. That’s Wow. Well, thank you, of course. Thank you. That’s amazing. But that being said, you know, I think about Quentin Tarantino, he needed to, you know, people know this, but he, when he first wrote I think it was Reservoir Dogs, he he wrote it in the rat infested apartment with cockroaches and, but it was a wonderful creative space. And he was hungry. He was really hungry. He wanted to show anyone what he could do. And that’s a thought that every artist should have. You know, it’s the sophomore slump albums with bands, you know, the first album is always great, because they the whoever wrote the album spent three years, maybe 10 years writing these great songs and, and playing them out and playing them over and over and over again, right. And then they, they put it on an album and it’s fantastic. And it blows up. And everyone’s like, This is amazing. And they spent the next two years on the road playing that album. And after that they come home and the record company says Well, where’s your next one? And they go, Well, I’m going to, you know, in the sophomore slump is, oh, well, usually the second album is talking about, I’m on the road. And the road is hard. And playing playing from town to town and city to city. And you’re going Yeah, because that’s what they’re experiencing. And some of those items are actually really good. But and it’s not a call, it’s a comment on like, protect your space, it comes down to that. So awards, money if I sell, sell, you know, I’m not selling stuff. You know, I do I work extremely hard, but I and I try. I try to pay the bills, I try to buy bread and that’s why I have an Etsy shop. You know, we’re having a lot of fun, we’re making backpacks and, and again, don’t be afraid to have fun. It’s okay. It’s okay to wear making T shirts and sweatshirts and stuff like that and, and purely just to help help with the bills, you know.

BC
But never when I was flipping burgers, I decided a long time ago Well, this might be my life, I might just have to rent a room with five other people. And you know, do the day job and then come home and but the only thing that kept my life worth living. I had some rough years really lonely time. I didn’t I really had one or two friends, my family or they were all doing their things. And I was broke and I I just thought I never stopped drawing. I never stopped writing music It kept me going. It’s everything I want to be in what to do, and awards. come or not. That’s not the fuel for anything it should never be. It should never be, you’re never going to get your best work when you’re because all award is, is its recognition, that’s great. But after the fact, if you’re, if you’re looking for more of that, and I’m victim to that, like, oh, I want more attention, because I’m a middle kid out of nine kids and I, I always want to, you know, I always want to be the funny one. And I always want to be, you know, but it’s really just self preservation, it’s really just just trying to be seen and feeding, feeding, you know, trying to get attention. And you can do that when you’re a kid or even a young adult. But after a while, you know, it can be hollow, it can be shallow, there’s nothing really there other than look at me, look at me see me. And it’s important, like a lot of you know, I’m a performer, too. I used to be, I used to play a lot of open mics and play out and me and my friend, John Malloy, who’s an incredible artist, incredible songwriter, Jama was great. But he taught me a lot about music, just chords and harmony and writing. And he introduced me to everyone from Springsteen to Tom Waits to, to will code to The Beatles, all of it, and we grew up together. And then we started feeding each other because we would, he would write song and show me and I would write a song and show him. And next Friday night, we would show each other songs and then go play it on the streets and go play it at an open mic. And you only need really just one person. And one person to tell you this is before Instagram, before the internet, really. And I just had one or two people that would go on like that song. That’s a good one. What are you going to write next. And I wouldn’t be on my piano. And he’d be on his guitar, and he’d show me a song. And we didn’t play video games. So we didn’t do normal things. We were down in a basement writing, writing songs and playing the Everly Brothers and playing you know, playing all kinds of anything we can get our hands on and talking about songwriting, we would go, we would go hit coffee shop after coffee shop drinking coffee out in the cold in the snow, walking and talking and we weren’t talking about girls. We weren’t talking about the game. We were we were two odd kids talking about the best Paul Simon song. What’s our favorite guy like Paul Simon shouldn’t have this many good songs. It’s not fair. Conversations, you know. And, and that’s and that was me 16 1718 We were having those creative conversations and I you know, those those things, those things, influence all your work, those great conversations about music and opening up and being not saying no to things that influenced all my work. That’s what I was saying before you can take a take lesson from any kind of creative, it doesn’t have to be in your field to apply it. I’ve learned things from watching chefs and I applied it to my drawing. My mom was into quilt making, and I learned a lot but looking at her and quilts in general and look at the patterns and those patterns. The patterns are endless. I can apply that to my drawings, you know, it just feeding off of different things and bringing it to as you know, filling up your toolbox, you know, but as far as awards and, and things like that, I I don’t think you’re going to be seeing me get any awards anytime soon. I think it’s I’m very humbled by everyone’s been as as afraid of people as I can be. Everyone on Instagram so far has been so kind and so warm. And I didn’t know what to expect. I was my big goal was was to have like 50 People like enjoy my work and go wow, that’s a 50 people out there saw a drawing of mine. That’s huge. Yeah, because you just you know, again being a hamburger flipper, and you’re showing the guy next to you who’s making the fries. Hey, look what I drew. When that’s your only outlet. Having something like Instagram or Bandcamp I all my albums are on Bandcamp I Having something like that, where you can just tell someone, hey, my entire life is on Bandcamp my whole life musical work is on Bandcamp. And you can sit and listen to it, that’s insane to an 80s kid, you know, to where you’re making demo tapes and, and recording on terrible things trying to get heard at the local free radio station that will play your stuff at two o’clock on a Sunday afternoon. That was a highlight for me one time I heard my song on a radio in my local town. And I flipped out, I just couldn’t believe it, you know, those, you know, temper your expectations in life, you know. So, but I’m just, I’m just happy, I haven’t been hit by that bus yet. I’m just happy I can keep drawing. You know, that’s all I want to do. I’m in a very fortunate position because my wife and I made a life change and, and I get to now be an artist full time. It’s not lucrative yet. But I work hard at it. And I know as long as I’m working hard.

BC
I’m going to be okay. As long as I’m trying to try to be true to my work and myself, I’m going to be okay. And I I love my wife for that she takes good care of me. And she’s incredible. She’s my hero. And and another hero of mine is John Malloy, who’s a great singer songwriter. He’s on I believe on Bandcamp to write me on my instagram. And you can I can tell you the stuff about him. He’s an incredible singer, songwriter. And my third year Oh, is my brother Matt, that painter, the guy who doesn’t we don’t get along very well, as far as artistically we, we land on different pages of the book. But he’s an incredible painter. And he’s he was an incredible influence on my life growing up. I always wanted to try and please them. And that was hard to do. So it made me work harder. He I would bring him drawings as a kid and be like, Look, I did this. And he’s like, Yeah, you should fill the page said, Look at look at all this white said, That’s a great picture. But fill the page. It’s so boring. Now that’s rough. Man, you spend three hours on that as a kid, and you just want someone to go, Oh, that’s great. Wow, you’re doing great. And my brother gave me the gift of being hard on me. When I was 17, and he was an art college. Yeah. And he was he was because he was probably getting that at school and art college, he was proud people are probably being hard on him and making him work harder. And think before he drew Think before you paint, think before you write. Understand what you’re doing. And if you don’t want to think and if you just want to be free flowing with your writing or your painting or drawing your dancing. That’s great. Understand that before you do it, though, you have to understand you’re doing that. That’s a great practice. So you know, the thinking and understanding he would ask me, why did you do that? Oh, well, that’s fine. But something maybe think before you draw because if you you know, have purpose, like you know, understand what you’re trying to do. Because it can you know, that’s important sometimes. So that discipline was important for me. And he was sparing with his praise. And when it happened, you just, you’ve you floated, you know, but but now I’m at a point where I know what I am. I know what I want to be I know what my goals are. They’re not awards, they’re not fame, they’re none of that. I just want to help with the bills or get milk and bread. That’s really all I want to do. It’s such a gift and you’re talking to a guy who’s who worked many, many jobs his whole life, not good ones. And to have the gift of to be able to to do this with my day, I I will never take for granted. I worked very hard. And if people don’t like it they that’s absolutely fine. I that’s absolutely fine. I need I need to do it. If I don’t do it. I’m gonna have headaches. As my brother used to say if I don’t draw after three days I start getting headaches. Yeah, you start having withdrawals. You need to you need to be creative. And I’m sure a lot of people listening, you know, and again, I know you your listeners are more writers. And I’m a writer too. I love to write. I write by yeah Scenes, writing songs. And writing is incredible. But it’s all the same, it doesn’t matter. It’s all. It’s all being a creative, the big lessons are the important ones. You know. I feel like I’m talking too much, I’m so sorry.

Rasta
Not too much at all. I think you’re making some good points with the idea of, you know, embracing your creativity, understanding your creativity, what your creativity looks like for you. And you’ve talked about, you know, the idea of embracing the freedom of what you want to express, exploring that expression. And it transfers across media, you know and all that.

BC
Well you know, I love stand up comedy, stand up comedy, they talk about, you know, you’re not going to find your voice for about four years, and stand up comedy. And what they mean is, you’re not going to find yourself, you’re exploring, and the harder and faster you do that, the, the sooner you’ll get there, you know, people you know, on Instagram, you have a lot of people, and a lot of amazing people and some, I really love, I really love beginners. I really love seeing people with talent, but who, who are still in that process of trying to find themselves. And they’re doing it through different means, like, you know, there’s some great artists out there who who draw just like Gimli. You know, and they’re drawing all these these drawings of and that’s a common if you don’t know, he’s a very famous comic book artist. But people spend all this time working on like, look, it looks just like the Gimli drawing, and they’re very proud of that. And there is a lot of work to that. That’s, that’s awesome. What they’re not doing is finding their style. They’re never finding as the comedian say, Find Your Voice. Who are you? We know. We have a Jim Lee. Who’s Who are you, Greg, who are you Rasta? Who are you? Then? BC who are you? The sooner you get there, the more bridges you are, but it takes time. You’re not going to just do that. You have to cross bridges. You have to you have to do the thing for years and years and years and years. And I still don’t think of me and people like all your people are very complimentary. I’ll say that. And I will say, Oh, well, thank you. I am forever a student. And I mean it. i i There are so many incredible artists that I see every day on Instagram that are professionals. I mean, real professionals and you just jaw drop and, and it’s great. I would say to people don’t let that discourage you. There’s always gonna be a faster gun out there. There’s always going to be other people with other talents. But remember something you are unique. You’re the only one you’re the only Rasta, you’re the only guy that is you. And you know people you know I want to be a famous artist one day will remember Charles Schultz from the peanuts, the artist who made Snoopy and Charlie Brown. You can compare his drawings to a Jim Lee from Marvel Comics, DC Comics. And some people go over he’s awful. There’s no question. And you go Yeah, but he’s one of the most famous American iconic artists of our time. And it’s simple little squiggly drawings because his writing was involved. His humor was there and his soul is in it. And there’s only one Charles Schulte so it doesn’t matter. That’s my point. It doesn’t matter if you’re Charles Schultz, Jackson Pollock, a Picasso. It doesn’t matter. What matters is you’re honest with yourself and you put it out there and you’re you find yourself and try and be and kill your ego. The thing that’s gonna stop you from doing that is your ego. Always, always. I’m not saying your confidence, have confidence. You have to, but you also it’s always a balance. It’s like being on that surfboard riding that wave. You have to balance your confidence, your insecurity, my insecurities, my weaknesses, my the things I’m not good at. They decide my work. You know, those things are just as powerful. You know. Mike Minneola, who, who drew Hellboy And he drew, you know, incredible artists to one of my favorites. I listened to interview with him and he had talked about like, I Well, I wanted to get into a draw my own universe where I didn’t have to draw telephones. And I didn’t have to draw a car, or, or, you know, because when you’re a comic artist, you have to set the story. So sometimes it’s in an office building, sometimes it’s in a street and you’re drawing things that you really don’t care to draw, but you have. And you’re like, if I got to draw a phone, brick wall, Bri 15/15, while you’re so bored, you know. So he decided, well, I’m going to try and create a landscape where I don’t have to do that. That was a, you know, and I loved his him being forthright about his limitations. He’s an incredible artist. And all he’s talking about are his limitations. But his limitations, made it his style. Don’t be afraid of the things you can’t do.

BC
.Sometimes you can embrace them. Like me as a musician. I know seven chords, maybe on a guitar. I’m a terrible I’m not a I’m not a piano player. As far as a pianist goes, I couldn’t. I’ve been playing for almost 25 years. But I, I, I couldn’t sit down and play sheet music. I can’t I’m a chord man. Like Bob Dylan. He plays five chords, and he sings a song. It’s no different on the piano. You’ll learn little frail ones here and there. But I only play with about three fingers on each hand. I don’t play traditionally, because nothing I’ve ever done in my life has been through school or through education, or I’ve never sat down with a piano teacher. My mother said, look, it showed me the C chord and and left me alone. She was a piano teacher. And I went I don’t I just want to play rock and roll. I don’t want to learn piano. I just want to play Let It Be from The Beatles. How do I do that? She said, well, here, these are called chords. Let me show you the chords on the piano. And I took it from there. That was the only lesson I ever had. She left and I started writing songs. And now flash forward. And a lot of that has turned into while you play will really differently. It’s unique. It’s you have a style. It’s not lazy, but it’s also not what we’ve always heard. I had a friend who went to art college and they pounded everything all her uniqueness out of her. They really did a job on her. She’s a fantastic artist, but she said I I came out of art school paralyzed. Because they had took taken everything that made me me away to show me the conventional road. I’m all for learning, but you have to protect yourself, you have to protect yourself. Because they will take it from you. Because everyone in that room who’s judging your artwork also has an ego. And they’re not gonna let some freshmen come in and wow them. Which is funny, because what if it is wow, what if isn’t that what at the cost of walked in as a freshman, but our egos won’t let us do that. So that’s what I mean by kill your ego, it does nothing for you. It does nothing for me. It just gets me in trouble. And I work really I remind, I remind myself all the time of that. When I correspond with people on Instagram. You know, I, I think to myself, What would Mr. Rogers say? Because he’s beautiful. He’s a beautiful person who’s a beautiful represent the representative of people. And I think to myself, I want to be my best self. So when I talk to someone who’s young, and they they’re just started drawing and they and they say something, make a comment on one of my drawings, and I write them back. And I don’t know why because I’m nothing, nothing crazy. Nothing. Astronomical but but kids, you get this feeling that kids are like, Oh, because they’ll say nothing like your stuff. I’ll never be that good. Or, or, or this and that. And I just No, no, you’re an amazing talent. Look how far you’ve come. All I’ve done is add more decades of time and I’ve crossed more bridges. I just kept walking forward. But you’re just you’re 17 I’m in my 40s You’re 17 You just have more bridges across that’s all. We’re just a different times of our life. There’s no better or worse. You’re farther along than I was when I was 17. Remember that.

BC
Well, it’s, it’s important, it’s important. And I give it back to them, I don’t let it I try not to feed my ego, if someone gives me a compliment, I try really hard to say thank you. And I’m appreciative and I am, of course, but I try and make it about them. Like, no, you’re amazing. Look, you’re fantastic. Keep going, you’re great. And I can learn from you. I can, I can learn from anybody. You know, and you have to be open to that, or you’re always going to be stagnant, you’re always your ego is is, is, is your worst self sometimes, you know, confidence is important. It’s, you have to balance it. Again, I feel like I’m talking too much. I’m sorry.

Rasta
I appreciate what you’ve shared. And I think that you’ve shared some really great messages about the pros and embracing your identity and finding your identity and that process, and sharing your own process that you’ve to reach out to you. You’ve gotten to where you are as an artist. And the idea of you know, you’re never truly done. But you keep going right? You can keep growing and keep feeling yourself out. And expanding your edges and discovering new things to the people you interact with. Interact with? And through your experiences, experiences people share with you. Is a very important messages for especially younger artists and it both writers and other forms of art to hear and understand. And I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me to share this.

BC
Oh, man, this was this is crazy is talking about ego. You know, everyone, for your whole life. Everyone does that a little interview with themselves in their mind, especially if you’re a creative fool. You know, you ask yourself the question that you think someone would ask you and you answer it. And you’ve been doing that since you’re 15 years old? Everyone has that? Yeah, everyone’s the hero in their own movie. This is the first interview outside of my freshman year of high school where I wrote a, a song and the high school newspaper came over to me and asked me about my song. I was like deer in the headlights. I didn’t know what to say it was so weird. And it because you don’t know what you’re on the spot. And, you know, when you wrote me a couple of weeks ago, I was that kid again. I was just like, someone wants to talk to me. Okay, and I and then you get caught up in the I hope I don’t get overwhelmed or I don’t I say something stupid, or should I talk about this? Should I not? Then you’re like, This is awesome. It’s the silly, don’t just don’t get in your own way. Just Just be honest. And all the things we all have them. We all have them. And I can’t I can’t thank you enough. I’m, I’m flattered. And I can’t believe you reached out to me of all people. And all week I’ve been thinking about it. And, and fighting with ego and fighting with insecurity. And going well. I don’t know if I’m worth talking to, but I’ll just be me. And, you know, i Quick, quick story. I had an art showing, I haven’t had many art shows in my life. But the owner of a comic book store, saw my work and said, Hey, I would love you to have an art show here. And I was floored. I couldn’t believe it. So I had an art show. And we made flyers and we put stuff out and I went early and I put up all my work and like many artists understand that feeling of like, wow, this is again, before Instagram before like, this is you’re pulling things out of that dark portfolio or no one’s seeing them. But yourself and you’re like wow, I could to who knows who will be there? Maybe Andy Warhol will be there now please. So you’re so I put all the things up and, and it wasn’t great. Then all my friend John Malloy, he played we played music together there my folks came of course you gotta invite the middle kid. I have to invite the parents. And everything went well. The the owner couple days later said to me, you know, some art students We’re here. And I immediately got, like, oh, you know, people who know what they’re doing.

Rasta
They’ve been trained for this.

BC
Oh, my goodness, yeah, you have that that feeling, you know? And he said, they were rave and he said, it was something interesting. They were they were loving all your work. And I said, all that, Oh, that’s great. I’ve pretty and I felt like, Oh, that’s wonderful, you know. And he said, and then I told them, that you had never gone to art school. And he said, everything changed. You said, suddenly, they were picking apart things. And suddenly they were, they had critiques. And that was a lesson to me, I. And I don’t put them down for that I understand. And I’m not putting education down, please, I don’t want anyone to think that I am not I, I would have loved to have gone to art school. But I, there’s something to be said about. Going back to that movie critic who stubbed a toe before he went and saw the film. Be careful who you invest in, with your influences and opinions that you take into your heart. Because the things may be tainted with ego things may be you know, oh, you know, this guy didn’t go to school, we now have in our minds have the right to judge it. And, you know, and people are free to do that I understand. I just, there’s a lesson there that you don’t, you don’t need to be superior to to contribute something creative. Creatively, it’s not a competition. You don’t have to put others down to make yourself feel good. In fact, you feel good when you you lift others up. To sometimes you feel like they could use it. Because God knows I could have many times in my life.

Rasta
I can though, times in my life when being uplifted is something that helped me to push through difficult times. Llearning new skills.

Yeah, you’ll you’re, you’ll feed on it, and you’ll live off that one compliment for years. You will and and and and if you’re not careful, those critiques and those those things that are that are maybe not always positive, or you don’t know really where they’re coming from. If it’s really in a genuine critique sense. You can if you let them they can eat you up. Or don’t let them don’t let them eat you up. You know. Last thing, I’ll say, my mom and I were driving in the car. And we’re listening to on the radio comes from from West Side Story, a place for us by Barbra Streisand and it’s beautiful. She loves Barbara right and orders listening to in the cars to beautiful song that has a place for us. Some love this great song Beautiful. And we got home and I said, Well, let me show you. You know, my version of this and I, the one I like to listen to and she said okay, and I showed her the Tom Waits version. And it sounds and if you don’t know Tom Waits, he’s He’s incredible. He sounds like your 75 year old grandfather, who walked over to a broken down piano with half the half the keys not rising after you’ve touched them. And out of tune. And he’s, he does his version of that song. School, very Louie Armstrong type, but even even grittier, it sounds like his voice was ripped through glass. Oh, plea for lie. No way that this beautiful jazz behind him a beautiful band behind him. And she didn’t know what to do. Because it wasn’t pretty. It wasn’t beautiful, but it was so beautiful. And it touches you and it was sincere and it was real and I’m not putting Barbara down. But there was no there was If there was no selling factor it was just it was you it was warm in your gut like after after drinking hot cocoa there was something about it that just it was it was suddenly your favorite song in the entire world and if you it’s on Blue Valentine I believe it’s a great Tom Waits album by the way, go check it out. But incredible incredible. But it but you know, most people think a thing and they think a certain way. You’re whoever’s listening to this. You’re a creative. Think your way. Don’t you know you don’t have to be Barbra Streisand. You can be Tom Waits and sing the same song and actually get me to cry. Versus just Oh, that’s pretty. You know, be yourself. Tom was Tom. He was Tom in that moment. He liked that song. He rarely did covers. Never did someone else’s song. But he did. There’s a somewhere from Westside story. And it’s the greatest recording of it. Personally, that I’ve ever heard. It’s incredible. You’ll find it and you’ll know what I’m talking about. So, you know, all this can be wrapped up to say what they told you in the third grade. Be yourself. We who you are and it’s so true. Those lessons you learned in kindergarten. It’s all you need in life. All the things they taught you in kindergarten is really all you need. Okay, I’m gonna stop. I’m going to just keep talking

Rasta
I think it’s been wonderful having you on the Writers Triangle. It was a pleasure talking with you hearing about your experiences hearing about your, your art, your development of your art, your philosophies about art, and I I really enjoyed it. No, I thank all of our beautiful cinnabar moth for listening as well. BC, can you tell us where we can find you on social media.

BC
Oh, yeah. Um, of course on Instagram, I talked about that. It’s, I’m reading off a piece of paper because I’m terrible at this stuff. It’s BC Foster 77 on Instagram. That’s where you see all my art. There’s also a link there for an Etsy shop, which is B C, foster art on Etsy. And we have all kinds of fun stuff on there, from candles to cards, to sweatshirts and all kinds of stuff, just with my drawings on it. We like making that stuff. It’s just fun for us. And for my music, all my albums are on Bandcamp and that’s BC foster Music dot band camp.com. And yeah, a lot of records on there on my life, my life and music is all there. And there’s some even some Christmas stuff. So if you if you want to listen to it, but But yeah, if you want if you want to hear some of my writing, that’s where you’ll get it.

Rasta
So I think that’s awesome that you were able to in this modern day and age have such great access that history. And for everybody listening, be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com where you can check out the transcripts and we’ll also have a link to all of BC social media. Once again, BC it’s been a pleasure talking with you. It was a joy.

BC
Rasta, thank you so much. This is such an honor. I really appreciate it. Bye