Episode 72: Elizabeth Roderick Interview

Rasta
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the Writers Triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Elizabeth Roderick, author of Gracie and Zeus Live the Dream, winner of the 2022 Best Indie Book Award in the mystery category. Elizabeth, how are you doing today?

E
All right, how are you?

Rasta
I’m doing good. Thanks for asking. Congratulations on the win.

E
Hey, thanks. It’s pretty cool. I like it.

Rasta
How’s it feel to be an award winning author?

E
You know, it’s, it’s really weird. It is something that I’ve been so focused just on writing and publishing, that, it always seemed like something that might happen in the future when I got my stuff more together. And, and I’m really glad that cinnabar moth asked me if I wanted to be entered in awards, because it’s something that it’s hard for me to organize all of that stuff and like, do it on my own. And so I hadn’t really thought about it. And so it’s almost like I I achieved something that I didn’t even dare to dream about, in a way. So it’s, it’s cool. I’m really, I feel good about it.

Rasta
I’m glad that it’s been a positive experience for you. I do think that the concept of reward is often something we think, Oh, once, you know, once I have this base of work, or people get to know me better, maybe it’s possible type of thing, right?

E
Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it’s the whole process of writing and becoming an author. At every step of it, you think that if you just achieve x, then you’ll feel like you’ve made it and at this point, I’m pretty comfortable with the fact that that that that no amount of achieving X or Y or Z is ever going to make me feel like I’ve finally you know, I’m, I’m finally like a real writer that I’m not going to have this impostor syndrome anymore. Like it’s so I’m allowing myself to just feel good about it instead of being like, well, but I haven’t won a Nobel yet. Next time, I got to win the Pulitzer, whatever. So yeah, I mean, yeah, it’s It’s something my family proud of me and, and people will say, congratulations. And I feel it’s just a really good feeling all around.

Rasta
So you mentioned that this is helped you come to grips a bit with being a writer and feeling like embracing the positivity of it? Has it changed how you view yourself as a writer? Do you feel like you’re a proper quote unquote, author now? Or how has it changed that feeling for you?

E
I think it’s just increased my confidence and my confidence, waxes and wanes. And it’s been at a low point actually, is weird. I wasn’t working out of the outside of the home for a few years before COVID. And right after COVID hit, I started working outside the home and I’m not able to concentrate as much on writing even, you know, I have time, but my brain won’t focus on it as much as it did before. I worked outside the home. So my confidence has been at a low point. I’ve I’ve written 18 full length novels. And I still feel like if I don’t write every day, that I’m not a real writer. I mean, it’s, it’s it’s a ridiculous thing my brain does. But it’s a good reminder that, you know, I’m still this is still it’s not not even just something I do. It’s who I am. It’s the only thing that I’ve ever done. That feels like it’s my thing, if that makes sense. Like if, when when I’m writing, I am at peace, and it’s pretty much the only thing that makes me feel that deeply relaxed. I mean, I’m an anxious person. And so it’s So it. Yeah, it’s just this. It was just a really good confidence booster. And it makes me feel like writing again. So it’s not like, been a complete turnaround on how I see myself, but it has been a complete turnaround of my mood in the moment, if that makes sense.

Rasta
Yeah, it’s been like a positive booster and sort of like a positive anchor where you can go, maybe feeling down but I did this thing.

E
Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, it’s it’s a good boost of serotonin.

Rasta
Is this your first time winning an award?

E
Yes, it is. I was actually. My book, The other place was nominated for an award. But I didn’t win. It was like a Reader’s Choice Award. And a reader nominated me for it. And I didn’t even know. Like, I didn’t even know until after I heart already hadn’t won it, because because I didn’t get the Facebook message. Like I never checked my Facebook messages. And they sent me a Facebook message or something. But yeah, I didn’t win that one. That’s the only other one I know of. It’s been nominated for anything.

Rasta
Okay, so you’ve, you’ve had the experience of being nominated. But this was the first time you went in, knowing from the beginning that your book was being submitted for an award. And then, hey, you want it?

E
Yeah, it was. It was really interesting, too, because I, I had sent you guys my stuff that I needed to enter and then I completely blocked it out. Like, I mean, it was there somewhere in my mind, but I’m just like, yeah, nothing’s gonna come of that. And then it’s like, I get this email. And it was it took me a couple minutes to realize it wasn’t a spam message. And it was pretty. It was pretty amazing.

Rasta
When you got an email or you were at home when you found out that you won the 2022 Biba award for mystery?

E
No, I was at work. At my, my outside the house job doing supervised visitation for parents who are court ordered to not be alone with their kids, I sit in on the visits. And like, I had to, like I started crying. It was really embarrassing, actually. And luckily, like this client, like, he’s been around for a while, and he’s like, he’s a good person. And, and he’s like, are you okay? And I, and I could and I felt I trusted him enough to tell him what was going on. So he didn’t think I was just like, someone had died or whatever. So but yeah, it was super embarrassing.

Rasta
Though, it was an emotional moment for you, but it was also kind of awkward timing.

E
Yeah. But yeah, it was. It was I never thought I cry when something like that happened. But But now Now, I know now I do.

Rasta
Yes, we we like to imagine that we know how we’ll react when something like this happens. But then it actually happens. And just, it might hit you on a sort of a day when you’re feeling some type of way. And it was a completely different reaction than what you imagined. Right?

E
Yeah. I mean, I’m barely in control of my emotions on a good day. So I guess I mean, most of them I feel like I’m wrestling my brain and my body to pay attention to me and do what I want to begin with. Yeah, it’s weird. How, how little we know ourselves sometimes. And, and, and how much it feels like? We’re, I don’t know, for me, it feels like my brain and body sometimes were like this toddler that I have to have to make behave. And that was one of those moments. Anyway.

Rasta
Yeah, that makes sense to me, the kind of, we know ourselves, but we also don’t know ourselves completely. There’s always that room looking like, Huh. So that’s also me.

E
Yeah. Yeah, it’s weird. I mean, if we’ve never been in a situation like you said, if you’ve never been in a situation There’s no way to know for sure how you’re going to react. Because I mean, unless unless we practice, like everything is practice, like, if you’re like a firefighter, and you think you’re gonna walk into this dangerous situation and just be this life saving hero, but then the first time you do it, you freeze up. You can you can practice and get better at it, like no matter no matter what it is. But unless we’ve been in a situation, and if it’s the first time, there’s no way to, there’s no way to know. Yeah. I mean, this is a huge digression. But

Rasta
Oh, no, it’s, it’s fine. With that, like the experience of getting the award and having that moment afterwards. Have you shared the fact that you’ve gotten this award with other people in your life?

E
Yeah, once. It’s weird, because my client was the first one to know. And then. And then, like it said, I wasn’t supposed to make an announcement on social media or anything, until the winners went up on the website. And so I had to, I told my daughter, but I had to hold off telling the world for a few more days, but yeah, I’ve I’ve told strangers, I think, in the supermarket at this point. It was not quite that bad. But yeah, I told my book group I told my writing group, I told my family and my my dad, I think really has told strangers in the supermarket because she’s definitely that kind of dad. I’m pretty sure everyone knows that this.

Rasta
So do you think that having the Biba award might change the way that others view your writing?

E
Yeah, I don’t, I think it, it does sort of thing. means a lot to people at the book market is so saturated, and even. I know a lot of people who have booked deals with Simon and Schuster, who don’t sell any more books than I did in my very first one. It’s just there’s so many books, and how people like, like, they say, word of mouth is the best way to get people to write your or to read your book. It just has to be someone they know and trust, telling them. Oh, yeah, this book was really good. And so it just any sort of thing to catch someone’s eye, that makes them think that it’s worth giving that book a chance is it always helps and, and it ends a certain legitimacy to your writing, like, whether whether that’s fair or not, and there’s a lot of schools of thought about whether it’s there. I mean, it’s just true. So I think I think people do look at like, when you’re an award winning author, I think they do look at you a little bit differently. But, but again, I still have to win that Pulitzer for them to really think I’m okay, so, so I’ll just hold my breath on that one.

Rasta
Yeah, well, you’ll do that with the next book. Right? You know, just a little bit further along.

E
My next my next little romancey funny, Rockstar book will definitely win a Pulitzer you never know Right? Yeah.

Rasta
Hey it’s it’s it’s a possibility. It’s a long battle along the path of already your growth as a writer, that’s the next step.

E
So it’s a it’s a big step, but I can I can get some mountaineering equipment worked my way up.

Rasta
So with you getting the award, that was very exciting, so I’m like you felt pretty comfortable sharing that with the people in your groups?

E
Yeah, I mean, no, I mean, I felt also like I was a braggy little fraud as well but I still I mean, I know I’m well enough that and they share stuff like that about themselves. So I felt comfortable in those aspects. There’s some. Like I try really hard not to wear get into conversations that aren’t my books. And like, you know, Hey, how’s the weather? Oh, I want to I want an award. But But yeah, I in the right context, I feel comfortable.

Rasta
Okay, yeah, I asked about that, because some people don’t necessarily feel comfortable, you know, opening up about the things that they’ve done, especially really soon after it’s happened, because they’re still getting comfortable with it themselves and connecting with that reality.

E
I mean, I totally get that, like, even after I heard from you guys, that the, that the winners had gone up on the website, and that I could announce to everybody, like, I went to the website, and I, for some reason, I couldn’t find my book. And my first thought was not that, Oh, I must have missed it. Or maybe there was a mistake, my first thought was that it, let them send me the email that I won was a mistake. And, and there was definitely some of that, like, I had to, like, there’s always this fear in me. And I think a lot of people that we’re going to, we’re going to tell people about something like this, and it’s gonna either end up not being true, or they are gonna mock us and tell us that we that we think we’re too big for our pants, because, you know, some people, some people are like that. And that’s unfortunate. But no one that I allow in my daily life is like that. So. So I’m pretty lucky in that regard. It’s all just a mental thing.

Rasta
Yeah, I think it’s good that you have these social circles that are comfortable and have, you know, positive people in them. I do think there are quite a lot of negative people who, even if they’re not malicious with it, they still end up like dragging other people down into that kind of negative atmosphere and headspace.

E
So yeah, I mean, especially with artistic stuff, like artists, a lot of people. And especially, you know, in late stage capitalism, so to speak, where almost everybody seems to be working a job that they hate, that sucks the life out of them. And that gives them no energy, leaves them no energy to do anything creative, or anything that they truly enjoy. And I’ve had a lot of people, when I talk about being a writer who have tried to downplay it, I mean, they’re either like, well, if I had any time, I could be a writer too. Or, you know, like, they, they act like it’s some superficial thing, and then I’m either no good at it, or that they could do just as well, if they weren’t so busy with other stuff. And I’ve had, unfortunately, if I broke up with a guy, when I got I got a contract on the first series that I wrote before I got the contract with you guys. And, you know, I, it’s a seven book series, and it took me like, I wrote it in an entire year, but I wasn’t doing anything else. So it was 1000s of hours went and like 1000s of hours went into writing it and editing it and pitching it. And you know, just all of the anguish and mental gymnastics that go along with that. Just beyond the actual physical work and he was just like, that’s great. I wonder when it’s going to be my turn to have something good happen to me it’s like wow, put a lot of work into it. It didn’t just happen. Yeah, and then I ended up having to pull out of that contract anyway, but but still like there are a lot of people that and they do it usually usually even though it is an incredibly toxic and malicious thing to do. They do it just out of a deep self. I don’t want to say loathing that seems a hard word. harsh word but, but kinda like they just they want so badly to have their own creative outlet that they and they spend so much time telling themselves that they You can’t do it, that they see anyone who does do it as they, they just have to demean them in order to feel okay about themselves. And it’s definitely, I think, something that a lot of us struggle with like, like, you know, when I have friends that get a big five publishing deal, like I legitimately am happy for them, but there’s still like that feeling of, well, you don’t have a big five publishing deal yet, you know, you don’t win a Nebula Award like, like, just, your brain is gonna sometimes try to make use that their happiness as an excuse to beat up on yourself. And you just have to not express that and other people because it’s a really jerky thing to do.

Rasta
Yeah, type of projection. Right? Yeah. Following up on that, you talked about like, feeling positively about your work and then struggling with the with embracing, feeling positively about your work and, and that imposter syndrome? Right? Yeah. Do you feel deserving of the of the award? Or are you struggling with x? I asked, because a lot of authors, you know, struggle with owning how good their writing is, and feeling positively about the writing. And I personally am team that cinnabar moth Lee, the Phil racemes, is that the dream is an amazing book. It’s really wonderful, well, enjoyable story. But do you connect with that? Do you? Do you own that? Or is that something you struggle with?

E
I mean, I both own it, and I struggle with it. One of my favorite writers who actually went to the same college I did Linda Berry, she was a friend of Matt graining, the creator of The Simpsons, and she does amazing comics. And she wrote one of my favorite books of all time, called cruddy. And but she did this comic, about, like, the, I forget the exact wording, but it was like the two enemies of the artists artist and there, she like paints them as these two like ghoulish creatures, and one of them is, this is great. And the other one is, this sucks. And like, you have to be constantly pushing both of those demons aside, excuse me, sorry, my daughter just came home. So you have to be constantly pushing both of those demons aside in order to get any work done, or at least to get your best work done. And, and, and, like, I allow myself to feel good, like you have to actually set aside space, or maybe some people don’t, but I have to set aside space for me to be proud of myself, and just not, for one rely on other people to make me feel good, because that’s a losing game, as a lot of us know. And also, I have to just concentrate mostly on how fun it is to write like that. And that’s why I do it, like, people ask a lot. Like, they ask the questions, like, if you knew no one would ever read your writing again, would you still do it? And I know without a doubt, in my case, it’s yes. Because it’s it’s almost like a form of meditation for me. And it’s a way like, I call myself a method writer, because I dissociation is kind of a pathology pathologize word, but like, I when I’m writing, I dissociate and become my characters. And it allows me it’s, it’s like a meditation where when I’m, when I’m in my characters, I don’t have to deal with all of the crap that’s bothering me personally. And it allows all my negative emotions to dissipate. Just like anybody who’s familiar with meditation might have that. Because I do that I meditate to the cause it is like a brain break, right? It’s like sleeping or whatever, where you just allow your brain to rewire itself in a healthier way. If you I don’t know if that’s exactly what’s happening, but that’s kind of how it feels. So I really just have to allow myself time to be proud to feel good about what I’ve done. But then just concentrate on the actual writing And the fact and so that excites me. Like, I don’t want the thing that if I, if I’m concentrating on getting a deal or making money or winning an award, then I don’t, I don’t get that flow. That is the reason I write because I’m concentrating on the wrong thing. So, anyway, that’s a very long answer to a short question.

Rasta
I think the ways we talked about with the kind of giving your self headspace when you write and be able to kind of remove yourself from what’s going on with you, and just focus on the characters, their thoughts in that world that you’re building is an experience that I also shared with when I was writing my book, as well as very much kind of taking a step back from myself and just all that mental energy being focused on something else means that there’s, there’s not a lot of room for for you necessarily in your stories, right? Yeah.

E
I mean, like, we I think we do, like, sometimes even subconsciously work out stuff. Through our characters, and sometimes consciously, like, specifically increase the in Zeus, that I wrote that in a really weird period of my life, and Zeus, anybody who knows the person that that character is based on, immediately knows who it’s based on if when they read it, like, and, but Gracie isn’t me in any way, shape, or form, really. I mean, I’m sure I put some myself into her, but like, it was a way for me to, like organize that relationship in a safe way. If it was not gonna make sense to anyone else. But yeah, I mean, we definitely put ourselves into it. But we also have to step outside ourselves in order for our characters to be themselves and to grow organically. Otherwise, you know, not to I mean, I hate Hemingway. Specifically, because it seems like every single one of his characters, every single one was male characters is a projection of the self that every single female character is his projection of how women are. And so you know, although his use of language is great, I think a lot of authors do too much of that. And isn’t my cup of tea anyway, that I can say mean things about him? Because he’s Hemingway and he’s dead, and he doesn’t care. But

Rasta
Hemingway’s not gonna have any feelings about this.

E
Yeah. Maybe Maybe he’ll come slap me around in my dreams tonight. Never know.

Rasta
And so with the winning the award, it’s, you’ve given yourself the space to enjoy it and feel good about it. Has it affected how you approach your writing at all? Or are you still approach in the same way?

E
Um, I mean, it’s, it’s affected. My focus on writing, again, it’s renewed my focus on writing, because I’ve been in a slump lately. And it’s just, I don’t think it’s had a direct effect on my actual writing. But I think at this point, I am, like I, it took me like six or seven books to find my voice and my style, which seems like a lot, but I was writing, I was finishing a full length novel, like every six weeks at that point. So it took me like a year of writing, to really, for it to write about the struggle with just the words I was putting on the page, I could just picture what I wanted to have happen. And I could get get it on the page and my style and my voice in a way that I felt comfortable, you know, that that I was getting close to portraying what I wanted to portray, if that makes sense. Because with any art, like, you have to hone your skill enough to be able to create the thing that you had in your mind. But this point, I’m like, at a like, my style is changing. Like I feel it feel like I need to do something a little bit different. And I haven’t found my new footing yet. And so I think it’s but I think it’s helping me do that. Just because it’s renewed my, my drive a little bit.

Rasta
Okay, so it’s not it’s not directly changing your style, but rather, you’re currently going through a metamorphosis. And it’s kind of giving you that booster of motivation to keep moving forward.

E
Yeah, yeah.

Rasta
That makes sense to me. I think it’s wonderful that you’re able to kind of re grasp that positive feeling with the writing experience again, and change that. Get that shift away from the negative and feel more positively going into it. Yeah, I like it, too. And so has getting the award opened any doors for you when it comes to writing?

E
Not Yeah, like, Well, I mean, you’re interviewing me, which I guess you wouldn’t probably be doing otherwise. But other than that, not. Not yet that I know of, like professional dwarves. But a lot of time, like, it gave me a sales boost, which was cool. I don’t usually check my sales anymore. But I’m like, I wanted to see if it did affect my rankings on Amazon, or whatever. And it did. So I’m hopeful that you know, that one really famous person will end up reading the book, for what just stumbling on it and like tweeting about it. And suddenly New York Times or whoever

Rasta
Gets picked up for a movie, you know?

E
Yeah, that’d be awesome. Actually. I could, I could see it as a movie.

Rasta
And so with the experience with having written Gracie and Zeus and then getting the award, would you say that there’s been anything surprising about the experience of winning an award?

E
Just the fact that it happened, I think. But yeah, not not, not otherwise. Ya know, just just that it happened like it. Like I said, it wasn’t something that I had ever felt was inevitable or close at hand. And so it kind of was kind of blindsided me.

Rasta
Okay, so the surprise was, it’s the experience itself is a surprise more than anything. Yeah. And you mentioned before that you’ve kind of shared with your, with your family and with friends and acquaintances and such that you are one of those people who would you say had like the best or the most surprising reaction to the one?

E
Oh, I mean, I don’t think anyone I mean, especially since COVID, my in person circle is kind of small, so. But my daughter, I live just with my daughter, it’s just the two of us. And she’s 18. She’s almost 19. And she’s always been when she was little, she was always my best support. As a writer, like she, my very first book, I gave it to her to read because it’s a YA. And she only made it through to three pages. But by the time I got done with that suit, that seven book series, and like started on my eighth book, when I gave her it was actually the other place, I gave her that book. And she read it all the way through and Drew, like fan art of my characters, and like, asked when the sequel was going to be ready and like, so like, she was the first person who gave me that feeling of like, wow, like, maybe I don’t stock like maybe people would like this. And so she, she’s just, I think, the happiest for me, and like the most supportive wasn’t a surprise, but it’s just definitely the best reaction.

Rasta
Yeah, I think that’s wonderful. Having your daughter be so supportive and so enthusiastic about your writing.

E
Yeah. And since she wasn’t into my first book, like I could trust, like, she was like 1112 At that point, so like, not a lot of subterfuge in that age group. I mean, I guess in some some kids but like, she knows how she’s always known how to speak her mind. To me, which is good. Like, because that shows me that I’m not too hard on her or whatever like she can. So yeah, it was, it was the first time I could trust that the reaction was genuine. And, and I still feel like her reaction is genuine. Like, she’ll tell me. She’ll, she’ll, she’ll keep my head on straight about this stuff, you know?

Rasta
Yeah, totally. I mean, kids are pretty straightforward. Especially the younger they are right. They just, they just tell you, Hey, this is how I think.

E
Yeah, why is your hair gray? Yeah, I work around kids. And they’ll definitely tell you about yourself.

Rasta
And so you’ve won the award has the award trophy arrived yet or?

E
Yeah, it did. I sent you guys a picture of me with it yesterday. And it’s sitting on my shelf right in front of me. I like I tried it around the house and a few different places and then put it on my little trinket shelf in my room where it will sit next to my Pulitzer when I win that too.

Rasta
Is that in view of your writing space? Is your writing space in in your room? Or do you have a separate writing space.

E
And in this house, it’s yeah, it’s in view, my writing space. I’m mostly here in my room, even though, like sitting on my bed, which is probably horrible for my back, but we just have a little two bedroom house. So it’s the only place that I can lock the 7 million animals out of if I need to, and get some quiet time. Right?

Rasta
That’s nice. Yeah, that reminder there, you can just look over and be like, Hey, I got that with my writing.

E
Yup. I did that.

Rasta
Yeah, all you

E
Well, and you know, the editing and, like, publication, it’s, it’s, it’s not all me, but it’s,

Rasta
It’s mostly you, it’s your writing. Right. It’s your story. It’s your ideas.

E
I set it in motion for sure.

Rasta
Yeah. So with the experience of writing the book and getting the award and everything what’s next for you? What do you have, that you’re thinking of going to next with now that you’re an award winning author,

E
I just I am really trying to get a daily writing practice. Like I’m trying to, I don’t I actually would like the obsessive writing practice that I had before even though it would be hard to do that and have I wasn’t having to work for money at that point. So but I don’t have anyone supporting me now. So like when I get focused on something I get really focused and it’s hard for me to do other things but I anyway, I’m trying to get back into the daily writing practice but I also really want to get my head together with regard to marketing and and stuff like that and pitching I have 11 completed novels on my just sitting in my on my laptop right now that are published and I haven’t been pitching them to anybody. So I really want to I really want to do that again think in those those are the next steps. I’m setting for myself like it’s it’s a long game and this stuff like it never like I said there’s never a point where you feel like you’ve made it and people who have accomplished a lot more than I have still say that thing so it’s not that I told myself that every day like I look at people who make millions in sales still saying the same things that I do. And it helps me to know that it’s it’s not an there’s no end game. There’s no goal or there’s just the next step. And so, yeah, just keep writing and keep trying to get it out there so that I can keep writing.

Rasta
I think that’s a positive way to view is that, you know, you can keep moving forward, you can keep growing, keep progressing, right?

Yeah. Otherwise, if I think of it, otherwise, it gets so overwhelming that I don’t get much time.

Rasta
Makes sense, I think having a frame the way that you can manage and work through who’s really, really important, right?

E
Yeah. And I mean, I guess it will be different for everybody. But I think with accomplishing anything, you got to find a system. I have I have ADHD, too. So my systems were getting things done or elaborate in numerous. And that’s the one that works for me with writing. Concentrate on the fact that you like it and concentrate on the next step, and get her done.

Rasta
So following up on that idea of getting it done, you’ve you’ve mentioned that you’ve gotten quite a few books written actually. Right? Yeah. Can you tell us a bit about some of the other works that you have out there?

Um, yeah, the ones that I have out there that the first one that I got published is called love or money. And that was the 11th book I wrote, actually, and like, I had been pitching one of my other books that has a schizophrenic main character. And I’ve been getting really good feedback from agents and editors, but they were like, I don’t know where I’d put this on the shelf. Like, it’s definitely a genre mashup. And so I got, I was just like, I just gotta get my foot in the door somehow. So I tried to write just a run of the mill romance novel. And, and I’m not one of those people that had never read a romance novel and was trying to write like, I had read them. But like, I always, I don’t like the ones that are just about the relationship. And so I wrote a romantic suspense. So it was the, the romance was a big part of it. And there was like graphic sex in it and like, it started, it starts it starts with a scene in a women’s prison in like, in the bathroom, and total sexy times, like right off the bat, and it was like my, this inside joke, I’m like, Well, that’ll sell a damn thing. And, and so I wrote that and, and I sent it off and got two offers from my first batch of queries from well, and which was so I guess, like my weird plan work and after, then that was with limitless publishing out of Hawaii.

And after I got that one published, they published my one with a schizophrenic main character, the other place series, which is it’s three full length novels and a novella. And and and then and yeah, it’s about a guy with schizophrenia and the woman dealing with addiction and and it’s I guess, like some people especially think the first one the hustle is dark but like to me it’s not dark like they like I’m not no spoilers or anything but I will never I don’t think have a book with an unhappy ending. Like I more power to people who write like that, but life can be like that enough. I love I love the that’s why I like romance novels is you know, it’s going to turn out okay in the end and it’s the one thing that I can control like, these are worlds that I have some semblance of control over and so I’m going to be it’ll be the end of you expect but it’s going to be a happy ending. So it’s not dark in that respect. And so but but yeah, they’re surreal and and then after those I self published the hoodlum army which is a like a lesbian modern day, Robin Hood retelling. And, and I think that one is the most light Gracie and Zeus is the same like funny. Sort of A Carl Hiaasen, Hiaasen style. Or, some people say Terry Pratchett, which I will never think I’m good enough to be put in a category with him, like, but like the same humorous sort of narrative. And that’s the self publishing was fun. I don’t think I’ll ever do it again, because I’m just no good at organization and marketing. And then I have in that all of my 11 books that I haven’t got published yet are all why. And all fantasy, although there’s lots of different like, one of them is high fantasy and like, although it’s like a like, it’s like high fantasy with the touch of sci fi, like, kind of alternate Earth were alien planet, high fantasy. And one is the My first series is like, urban fantasy with like, people controlling the dream world and like writing computer code to sell condos and the afterlife and stuff like that. And, and yeah, like another my most recent one I finished is a YA. Like sci fi fantasy. And the one I’m working on now is a is a why alternate Earth fantasy. So I’ve, um, I need to find a way to make the jump from being primarily an adult. I think I’m primary I’m primarily a YA, like, why is my first love. And a lot of people tell me that’s because I’m immature or I wish I was still 16 or whatever. But like, I like, I like the vibe of ya. Like it’s not as jaded generally as adult, even like a fantasy like, and it’s more like, it allows me to have a more innovative voice when dealing with problems and also like, not like you. I don’t know how to explain it. But like the characters, their baggage is more or less newer than if you’re writing with adult characters. It just Yeah, it’s a, it’s a better vibe for me. But yeah, that’s, that’s what all of my unpublished stuff is. So go ahead.

Rasta
It sounds like quite a variety of different genres and different fields.

E
That’s part of my problem with marketing is I have to reinvent the wheel with every book, like I can’t. I can’t be like, if you like my last one, you’ll like this one. There’s something for everybody. Like, it’s like a smorgasbord. Instead of like, I mean, and it’s not that people want to read the same thing over and over. But it’s like, when I find an author, I like I’ll read everything by them. And, and there’s some other authors that are like me, and it can be frustrating because it’s like, I didn’t sign up for this, like, I thought it was gonna be like your last thing and like, so I get it. I just have to, I have to deal with that reaction from people and learn how to learn, like, maybe I’ll have to publish under 12 pseudonyms for each genre.

Rasta
Yeah, I mean, I think the people do enjoy styles of writing great. So even across different genres, I think some readers enjoy the idea of genres and will be like, Hey, I enjoyed their way stuff, let’s try their adult stuff or the other way around and still enjoy it and some people might go about really in twice so maybe I won’t read that stuff. You know, this was nice, but you know, different people different reactions. Some people might be more excited for the why stuff because that’s what they usually read and they just were exploring the adult stuff and

E
Yeah, I mean, it’s just a way of finding a way to speak to their expectations so that so that they know right, so they’re not just appointed you know what I’m saying like thinking thing and getting another

Rasta
Yeah, definitely makes a lot of sense. And I I totally get it with the you set an audience and you attract an audience man, not wanting to Surprise them necessarily what with what they’re reading? Yeah, that way. Like, you might be surprised by the story, and that’s a good thing. But they shouldn’t be surprised by the type of writing.

E
Yeah. Because even if they like sometimes even the people would like the like the book otherwise, sometimes they’ll put it down just because it wasn’t what they wanted to read right then. And you know, it’s hard to build a fan base like, especially with Andy pub, the one the wall with, I mean, across the board with all types of publishing, romance is the most popular. And the way you build your fan base as a romance author is publish a series of the same type. Or at least, like the same type of book, like Tessa dare writes Regency romance, and she publishes like, three or four of them a year, and they want you to, they want you to publish one a month or something. Like it’s incredibly, it’s incredibly competitive. But that’s one of the reasons why it’s so so well is because people write, they, they want a certain kind of book and they want it to end a certain way and have the same tropes and and some people say that, that makes things repetitive and I don’t think it does for reading but I would I do for writing like, Yeah, I like I like long series, like I like to stay with my characters for a long time. But when I start a new series, I want to be somewhere completely different, like I’m done with whatever happened. And cosmonaut explorer,

Rasta
I think that’s one of the wonderful things about writing is you have that ability to continue exploring all these different genres and different ways of telling stories. And it is open, you know? Yeah. It’s wonderful that you’re exploring it. Yeah, it’s, it’s fun. I like it. And I think that’s wonderful that you got the quite a few books out there. Quite a few different genres, different ways of tying these stories. And you’re continuing to explore with the ones that you’ve already written and the ones you plan on writing in the future. And everyone who’s listening, you should check out all these books, check out Elizabeth’s books. Check out Gracie and Zeus live the dream if you haven’t already. And congratulations again, Elizabeth for winning the Best Indie Book Award and mystery category for Gracie and Zeus Live the Dream.

E
Oh, thank you very much.

Rasta
Yeah, we’re excited about it. We know your fans are excited too. And thank you for taking the time to talk with me today and be on the Writers Triangle.

E
Thank you for having me.

Rasta
And thank you to all of our beautiful moths for listening. Be sure to buy Gracie and Zeus Live the Dream and check it out. Elizabeth, can you tell us where we can find you for social media?

E
I am Lids l i d s Rodney r o d n e y on Twitter. All one word in I Am Tales from Purgatory on my website is tales from Purgatory, all one word.com And I’m tales from Purgatory on Tik Tok and Instagram.

Rasta
Wonderful. And once again, thank you for talking with me today. It’s been a pleasure

E
For me as well. Bye