Episode 73: Choosing the Right Point of View for your Novel
K
Hello, my beautiful cinnabar moth or any kind of moth you’d like to be. Welcome to the Writers Triangle, a podcast about publishing and all things books. And today I am super excited, we’re talking about point of view, and it’s a topic I am super passionate about. And for me, point of view is so important to understand because it will make or break the reading experience for any piece of writing at all. And I have to admit that I really favor first person point of view, quite a bit. And that’s what we usually ask our authors to write in, I usually send back the note whenever I get something that’s not in first person and ask them to switch it to first person. But I digress, or I get ahead of myself, I want to start off by talking about what point of view is, and point of view for me, is the primary pronouns that you’re going to use in the book, whether the point of view that you’re the vision that the story is being told, is it going to be told to you? Is it going to be told by AI? Is it going to be told about he she made them Xur, and deciding what perspective you want the reader to have, and what level of information you want the reader to have. That is how you sort of pick which point of view that you want to do in which point of view works best. I think, knowing how, knowing what each point of view is, first person, second person, third person is a really important thing, in terms of having the story be impactful in the way that you intend, as though we tell a story is really about our intentions. Why are we telling this story? What do we want the reader to get out of this story?
K
What do we want the reader to take away? What’s their experience? Is this just a bit of raucous fun that we want to offer the reader escapism? Is this something deeper? And we want them to be contemplative? Is this something scary? Do you want them to be frightened? Is it suspenseful? What type of piece Are you writing, I think is a good thing to figure out before you think about what point of view that you want to have. Because you can use one of you to create suspense to create confusion, to create tragedy, comedy, any kind of emotion, you can think of, you can create it based on the point of view that you have, and the point of view that the reader is reading it what is the readers lens, right. And that lens really sets the reader up to get into that emotional space, and make that emotional shift, whatever that emotional shift is going to be. And I think every piece of writing has an emotional shift. For me, at least when I read it, I go into every piece, even if it’s just escapism and relaxation, I’m switching from whether it be work or play or hanging out with friends socializing, whatever it is, I’m switching into the space into my reader space. And choosing to read fiction or nonfiction it has a different emotional fuel. And that emotional feeling. point of views sort of sets the tone from paragraph one, Scene one, right? It lets the reader know, okay, this is going to be really convoluted and complicated if you’re switching points of view, or it’s going to be straightforward and have a single point of view. So a great way to pick point of view is to first understand the rules of point of view, and what exactly that means. So a first person point of view is it’s going to be one of the characters telling the story. And it could be first person point of view for multiple characters. We have several books that that do that Fixman by Katie Grimm is one of them. And Katie does a really great job of that switching between the two MCs Zoe and Hugh and it’s a lot of fun because for me Hugh is really takes himself very seriously. He’s an old werewolf. You know, it’s been around a couple 100 of years. And he’s a literature professor and just really takes his relationship with books to heart and very seriously and has a very pent up tense sort of Sad point of view. And Zoey is younger. And, and hasn’t been around as many years, but has just come come off some tragedy in in her life. And she has more timid and hopeful and, and private and a little bit insecure. And through the book you get to see Zoey come into her own and fully blossom and he relaxed and sort of come in to His own and His interpersonal relationships and they sort of merge together. And I like going through the two different emotional registers and like and pixies in the mess, there’s the pixie point of view and then the human point of view, who Jake is a human and he finds out that he’s magical, and that journey, the horror and joy of finding out you’re magical and and then there’s Kenneth, who’s a pixie whose job that is to try and keep magic away from Jake and the angst of that and does the the grudge and the drudgery of of having a workaday life and still being a Pixie, and I like billing back and forth between the two of those that they are separate and distinct first person point of view so that it doesn’t get muddy, and it’s easy to understand. And then we have a book with a really, really deep first person point of view, which is from the lighthouse. And that the point, the first person point of view is so deep, that it almost crosses over to be third person point of view, and an unreliable narrator because you don’t know is the main character, not point of view, real is not a dragon is not a human, what is not. And that’s the quest of the book is it’s finding out what and who not is. And that’s, that’s the journey of it through trauma and what could be magical realism or fantasy, and having to take that journey and figure it out.
K
So if you’re looking at something like fixed moon, where it’s a paranormal, romance with a lot of action and adventure in it, and you’re bouncing between these two points of view, it’s really important to know the different personalities of the characters that you’re choosing. When you’re doing first person point of view, how would they react? Because in scenes where they’re together? whose point of view, are you going to showcase if you’re using multiple first person points of view? And you have to know whose perspective it is? And how are you going to mark the change and, and point of view, and some authors do it with putting the person’s name at the beginning of the chapter and some authors don’t, I don’t know off the top of my head of pixies in the midst marks it as clearly fixed moves, it’s very clear when it Zoe’s perspective and when it’s used perspective. And I like the intersection of when they’re together. And we’re reading it from one character’s point of view, or the other characters point of view, he has a does sort of create the the inside lane on this romance that that’s happening. And there’s inside lane on the different choices, the magical world, the human world, the blending of the two, and what that experience would be like, and it it’s really well done. And the switching is really clear. It’s never confusing whose point of view it is, I think with pixies in the mist, we did get some feedback by some of the beta readers on some of their viewers that were like switching back and forth was a little bit required a lot of mental gymnastics for me, and I wasn’t into that. So in writing the first person point of view, if you’re going to have it from the perspective of more than one character, you really have to be prepared for the feedback that some people won’t enjoy that some people like it from a single person’s point of view. And staying with that one person’s point of view, and not switching between characters. But in something like fixed moon or pixels in the mess, we really would have lost a lot of information if we didn’t have both for pixels in the mess both Jake and Kenneth point of views because Jake’s point of view is the human point of view is sort of our invitation in and Kenneth’s point of view is the pixie point of view, and allows us a pathway into things that we couldn’t know about his work a day life, about his grind, and about the magical world if we didn’t have both of those and the same and fixed men. If we didn’t have Zoe’s point of view, we would miss out on what it feels like To be in that space where you’ve given up on love, and you’ve given up on life being anything special. And you’ve just said, I’m just going to have this very vanilla, sort of an sorry, I love vanilla, vanilla, French vanilla, there’s all kinds of vanilla. But that’s just my shorthand, that you’re just, it’s just going to be one note. And you’re okay with that, and then being pulled into the magical world, and for you what it’s like to live such a long life, and what are the implications and repercussions for being immortal and living that long, and having a mortality, but you can be killed not having that sort of, I’m indestructible. So having that mix of immortality and mortality, and what does that look like?
K
It brings so much flavor, and seasoning to the story and to the dynamic between humans Zoe, that it really draws you deeper into the story having those two points of view, just as having those two points of view for for Jake and Kenneth, switching back and forth, draws you deeper into the story. So readers that enjoy or writers that enjoy telling a more complex story than the single first person point of view from only one perspective. That’s one way to have it be deeper and add layers and add more seasoning. And I think from the lighthouse is a great example of how to stick to just the first person point of view, and have it be extremely deep and have it be completely that person’s world you’re inviting the reader in and locking them in to this one person’s journey or one character’s journey on one person’s experiences and perspectives and expectations for life and how they perceive everything. That can also be very rewarding and very entertaining. So you can play around a lot with first person point of view, you can have it you know, multiple people, you can have it be really deep one, but what it requires, is that you really really know the character who’s going to be narrating the character’s point of view that the reader is going to be seeing the stories from, and their perceptions, and how they would react to everything. And I advise writers when they’re doing first person to know about their character, something Katie did that I think is amazing and really fun. As Katie did the astrology charts for all of the characters and knows their favorite colors, and how they dressed and what type of music they like, and what type of foods they enjoy eating a lot of stuff that doesn’t come through in the novel, but makes them fully realized people. And I think what shad did and from the lighthouse was really went as deeply as far as as one can go into the main characters autistic and gives that autistic non binary point of view, and a really personal way. So Chad went inwards, and drew a lot from their own experience. And I think things sprinkled a little bit of herself throughout into Zoe and some of the other characters. And I see some of some of Katie in here as well. And I know, Ross did drew Jake from himself, and kind of not so much. And for me having but with kind of drew on experiences that he had had. So you don’t have to draw from yourself. But you do have different doing first person and doing it well. And doing it interesting. For me. It has they have to feel fully realized. And knowing the sun sign and moon sign and the full chart astrological chart if that’s what you’re into, about a character would really let them know like, Oh, that’s so Gemini or Oh, that’s something and Aquarius would do. When different situations come up in your writing, you know how they would react, right? Because they’re a fully realized person outside of the story. Writing a character study for your MC if you’re doing first person, I think is so important. So that way, they have that through line with their behavior that they’re consistent. And the way that they react never takes the reader out of the story is Oh, that’s so Zoe and I found myself when reading Fixman I would think so Zoey on some of the things that I felt like I had an intimate personal relationship and connection to her. And I felt the same way with her with with Jake and Kenneth, I really related to Kenneth and so having the stories be relatable is important or having a way for me with not a connected with knots pain, it felt deeply personal. For me, it felt like a deeply personal journey and like, getting to look behind the curtain and see into someone’s personal life and really get to know their world. So first person is an invitation to readers to come in and experience this character’s world. And this character’s viewpoint.
K
So make sure that their viewpoint is fully realized if that makes sense. So that’s basically first person, second person point of view is not one that I enjoy, that uses the pronoun you, and it makes you the main character. And I don’t enjoy that at all. It’s like, you woke up, and it was a cold morning, and you put on your and it just for me, it just is big, fat, no, but it’s valid. And a lot of people enjoy. Second person point of view, because it makes them feel like they’re part of the story like they’re the emcee. And I think that it can work for a guest from, from my perspective, for young middle grade, that works. I really struggled thinking of a novel that it worked for. And in long form, I have read some short stories that it worked, but they weren’t my cup of tea, because I don’t like someone saying you in my own personal writing, I rarely write the word view, it feels pointed to me. The word view like when someone says you went to the store, I immediately think No, I didn’t, or Yes, I did. What about it? So I don’t know what it is about my relationship with the word view. If it’s pointed at me, it just feels really pointed. And I feel like, get out my business? I don’t know. And I don’t enjoy that. It takes me out of it. Because if you’re saying you slapped their face, then I think would I end this situation? Slap the person or you ran weighs trembling? And I think would I run away? And so it takes me out of the story. Because I started having the conversation when I do this, does this feel authentic? It doesn’t feel authentic to me. And that’s the risk of writing. Second, the second person point of view, if you click and vibe with the reader, and you get the reader that like, yes, I would act this way this is authentic to me, then you have a better chance of it doing well. And being something that people want to read. The danger is the bigger risks because you have to have either that person that’s buying in right completely buying in and that it feels authentic to them. Or someone who wants to escape themselves, escape their own identity, and be someone else and have that vicarious living experience through reading. And for me, I don’t read to live another life. I don’t fantasize about being characters and books or characters in movies, that’s not my personality. There are a lot of people who do and who do put themselves in the action. And you find that a lot with first person I kind of do that with first person, but I don’t get all the way to that the eye is me. Or as with the EU, it does feel like I don’t have the ability to create the distance and say something like, Oh, that’s so Zoe. And that I’m in the place of saying is that So Christopher, and that has a shying away from the second person a little bit. However, there are some readers that that go into books and really enjoy that. Keep in mind that a second person point of view, a novel written in that point of view is going to be really, really difficult to solve. And if that is the only thing that works for you, by all means write that but know that you’re going to be on a very long journey. And I would excuse me, I would recommend if you’re writing a second person point of view, to put on your calendar, a lot of traveling and going to book fairs, or you can meet with agents and publishing houses in person. So you can pitch the book in person, because it’s going to be a hard sell if you’re doing the email query letter. Because those books but to get polished and second person is really it takes a really special book and it takes a really small I showed publisher or agent to champion that book, but they are harder to sell because of what I was talking about. Because they are rather niche, if that makes sense. But I do think that, you know, if that’s where your head’s at, then then that’s where your head’s at. And that’s what you, you have to write, right? You can only write what, what your muse is telling you. And I, I have a lot of empathy for authors. And I say, don’t fight the story, write the story, that’s a need to tell if that makes sense. So that’s my thoughts on second person point of view. third person point of view, I think, is really, really fun. And I like omnipotent, omnipotent, third person point of view, because I love when they know everything, and the narrator knows everything. And so third person is when the narrator is outside of the story. And they say she, he days or her all of that. And they either know everything, or don’t. And so the unknown person is when they know everything, and they can tell you everything that’s going to happen. And they can predict the future and understand the past, and know all perspectives and all actions, and nothing is hidden from them.
K
And then there’s third person limited where they don’t know everything. And they have some blind spots, and they can’t always predict and limited third person allows for a lot of surprise, and suspense. So thinking, do you want surprise and suspense? Or do you want a lot of foreshadowing. And you can mix and mingle between foreshadowing and suspense and decide which way that that you want to go. With it, and really think about is this, the best way to get my story across and this is, is this the best way to serve my story is by having the voice that the reader is going into the outside of the story, and have that view of the whole landscape, we have a book coming out in 2023, called leak falls that has a really gorgeous third person point of view that I really enjoyed, where we could see everything. And for me, third person, when I first started reading it as a little bit trickier to get into, it takes me about a chapter or two to get into it with a third person. But I like it because it allows me to see what’s going on with a lot of different characters without being locked into any one character’s perspective or point of view. And it gives me a wide view of the playing field. And I find that those are more atmospheric efference over columns is written in third person point of view, which we released March of 2023. So blackfalds cannot 22 import your swing 23 when I’m recording this, so it’s coming out in 2024. Sorry about that. And for me, it is really interesting. I like not with an ingress over Collins, those a lot of pent up emotions and a lot of hostility and having that third person point of view, I can see why everybody’s feeling the way they feel, and why everybody’s reacting, the way that they’re reacting. So the ingress over Collins, there’s a young boy who, who falls from a high storey building, and it’s how it affects the community, and specifically the community and two high rise buildings, one community that can see it that’s in the neighboring high rise, and then the community that’s in the high res where the boy fell, the high res boy fell from and how it, how they react and how it stirs them up. And how it becomes about vengeance against it becomes the people that are hurting from the loss of the child and not knowing what to do with all of this hurt and rage. They seek revenge on the people who who aren’t hurting, and specifically when character and where that takes all of them and the aftermath of the culmination of the release of that revenge. And I found that, that having that third person point of view was really helpful because everything made sense because I could see the entire lay of the land and understand everything that was going on and it’s it’s third person limited and that I don’t have all All of the details. So some of the actions that the characters took, were a surprise, because I didn’t have all of the pieces to the puzzle. And that made it interesting. And that was surprising for me. And I really enjoy that where you get into a story and you’re like, Whoa, okay, you’re going along, and then something happened that the shocking. And they’re suspense. And so that’s really fun, and really playful, and, and exciting. And then third, third person omnipotent, is and I’m pronouncing that word different. Every time I say I have a lisp, and I’m funny about any word that has an s&c together, I want to put a P in there to change I prefer plosives. So anything, you know what I mean, the third person where they know everything. And I really enjoyed that, because it allows me to have a lot of foreshadowing, and know what’s coming down the road, and really enjoy that coming. That predictive power, there’s something satisfying, and what I predict, like, I know that’s gonna happen, and then it happens in a field. gratifying. And I It makes me feel smart. And I really enjoy that. And I also enjoy a type of narrator that I just want to talk about with the with the third person with any of them, right, you can create an unreliable narrator, it’s a little bit more difficult to do with, with second person where the narrator is telling the story, but not, you’re not sure if they’re reliable. And so imaginary friends, which is our male 23 released has a third person unreliable narrator it’s told from the perspective of a tiger who dies and then sees over everything that’s happening. And we’re not sure if this tiger is telling us the full story. And if this is the truth of what’s happening. And it, it’s really interesting, and it’s an interesting space when you have a third person, and they’re not reliable. And it’s also an interesting space, where you have first person and they’re not reliable. Yeah, first person who may have you know, an addiction or may be a compulsive liar, they’re just a shifty, shady character, and you can’t quite trust them. I like that that can be fun and interesting. And, and give you a lot to play with. When it comes to picking a point of view for, for your book, I say, try a scene in your book and see what fits. And if it makes sense to you.
K
Then I would say write, experiment. If it doesn’t quite feel right, then experiment with the different points of view, and right a couple of scenes and see what point of view, this the best for you what point of view feels the most natural, that understand that you may get a request to change the point of view. So I have had, the biggest change that I asked for is from third to first. And I asked from third to first when they’re doing third person point of view, but it’s bouncing between two people. And it just, it’ll feel a little bit off. Or to go from first person or third. If for me, I find first person to be challenging if it’s more than two people. And that’s just I’m just one person that this is my preference. And if you’re sending your your manuscript out, and you’re getting partial reads, but you’re not getting full reads, honestly to a point of view, check and ask yourself if it would be better. If you change the point of view, would it be smoother. And if you have a book that third person point of view, I’m working with an author now that I asked them to switch from first person to third person, because there’s a lot of things that happen that the main characters not there in the scene, but they don’t do it a point of view switch and it makes it a little bit awkward. So I asked him to do third person just so that okay, we have the same view throughout the entire novel. So if you’re getting partial reads and no one’s requesting a full read, it might be because you don’t and have the right point of view for the story in terms of what agents and publishers are wanting. And honestly, it’s worthwhile to ask. And I always give feedback. If it’s a point of view issue. I always say why if I do a proper read, and I don’t request a full rate, I always say why I always say what’s not working for me. And you can find places that you submit to you that will give the feedback that I give the feedback for free, we don’t charge anyone to submit to us right now. And, you know, 2023, and February of 2023 hours, our subs are closed. And I’m sorry for that. But if anytime our submissions come open, you can send us now always let the person that, like, any author know why it’s a yes or no and what works for me and what doesn’t, because I do think having sending your manuscript out, it is very much like throwing it into the void, and hoping something sticks. And for me, I hope that people do find the time agents and publishers, I know we’re busy. my TBR list is the bane of my existence sometimes. But just taking that extra few minutes to write why something is working for your why something didn’t work for you, means the world to an author. So that’s my, my plea to everybody who’s in the position of saying yes or no to two pieces of writing. And yeah, so I hope you enjoyed this episode on point of view. And what’s your most recent piece that you’re working on right now? What point of view are you doing? Leave a comment down in the in the comment section, let us know and be sure to hit you know, the like button and subscribe and turn on notifications. So you know when we upload a video, it really does help out the channel we’re trying to get to that 100 Subs mark and that would just be so awesome and so exciting. I’d love to be able to get that in 2023 That would be Supercalifragilistic expialidocious I want to thank my beautiful cinnabar moths for listening and you can be or any kind of moth you’d like to be and you can even be a butterfly but I’m not Mariah Carey and I’m not trying to bite her rhyme bye