Episode 80: Author Tom Haward Shares Insight on Work-Life-Writing Balance

Rasta
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the Writers Triangle, Cinnabar Moth’s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with international author Tom Haward. Tom, how are you doing today?

T
Yeah, I’m really good. Thanks. Yeah, it’s cold. But the sun’s out, which is nice and works nice and busy. But I’ve managed to slip away for a bit. So that’s nice and can be a bit warmer. Because is, it’s very windy today so that winds cold.

Rasta
And I imagine getting a break from the windy days can be a nice reprieve.

T
Yeah, yeah, cuz it’s nice. You don’t realize how much it kind that wind I mean, it feels like it’s always windy, where I live, like, it just always feels windy. So and it kind of batters your skin all the time to get over it. Like you get really dry skin and stuff. So I think I need to moisturize a bit more.

Rasta
And so speaking of being very active, you’re going out quite a bit exploring the elements. I want to interview you because of how complex your life is. You’re an active oyster fishermen, or farmer, Father, writer. That’s quite a few different elements to handle. Can you tell us a bit about your oyster business?

T
Yeah, well, it’s it’s an oyster business. It’s been in my family for eight generations now. So I’m generation 8 of oyster farmers. So we as a family started farming oysters here on Mersea Island, an island in North Essex in England. We started farming oysters here in the 1700s. And back then my fifth great grandfather was growing oysters then shipping them off up into central London via boat by the Thames, which is quite amazing. And we’re pretty much doing the same thing now except we don’t sail the oysters into London, we drive them around instead. So it’s it’s quite a business. It’s quite a legacy. And we’ve been doing it like I said since the 1700s. And and we’re still farming oysters now and shipping them all around the UK about why over a million oysters a year. So it’s it’s it’s hard. It’s hard work. It’s great, but it’s hard work.

Rasta
So that’s quite a long history, then geez since the 1700s. About 300 years of history. With this, the oyster business. That’s really amazing. And it’s also kind of surprising to me, because I don’t come across a lot of people who have businesses that span back so many centuries.

T
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s quite a it’s quite a legacy. And like I say, I think we are the oldest oyster farming family in the world. So it’s like, you kind of feel a sense of there is a weight of expectation on that in many ways, but at the same time, it’s wonderful that that I can share in that as well.

Rasta
Yeah, I can imagine and then on top of that you’re also a father and a partner. How do you balance being a dad with your business and and all of that

T
I don’t know. Blaggered all the time I think I think is like Gemma and my fiance and I we when we got together we met on our masters when we’re doing creative writing masters together. That’s where we met back in 2016. And I think I pretty much fell in love with her when I met her and and she eventually gave in and wanting to like go for a date with me. And yeah, it’s been wonderful. But we when we got together one thing we said is we’ll never have children like she didn’t want children and I didn’t. And then and then that will change with our little girl autumn is now two, which has been the most wonderful thing ever. But from day one of autumn being born Gemma and I were like we have no idea what we’re doing because we don’t really have any experience with children because we didn’t want children so I kind of didn’t have that knowledge or experience of being around children. So I was never interested. So the blagging it from that day ever since and we’re autumn still alive. So that means we’re doing something happy and yeah, and Gemma and I are getting married very soon. And so that all works a maze I think I think the bow I think I think the balance is just not stressing too much. I try and be very relaxed and laid back about everything. And then nothing seems too daunting or overwhelming. And then that way I can then manage my days and my weeks quite nicely.

Rasta
So for you it’s a matter of not putting too much stress on it.

T
Yeah I think at the end of the day, you’ll never, you can never get everything done that you need to do in a day, like with a business or anything. So I think it’s just kind of it’s I’m very good at prioritizing and working out what’s really important for right now and what can wait, you know, what’s not, it’s not going to be a drummer, that has to wait another day kind of thing. And, and also remind myself, it’s probably not very good business to say this, but I say the world’s not, if for some reason, I can’t get some oysters to someone today, the world’s not going to end because they’re not going to always does today, and they have to wait till tomorrow, you know. So that’s kind of, it’s probably terrible business to say that, but remembering that, you know, things, you know, we’re so fast paced as a world nowadays, where everything was everything now. And I remind myself that everything doesn’t have to be as fast paced as that. So you can, you can kind of balance everything quite nicely without it, kind of overwhelming you.

Rasta
And so do you keep that philosophy is that how you manage being able to not only be a business owner and a father and a partner, but also find time to write?

T
Yeah, again, I don’t, I very much write, in the sense that I don’t put pressure on myself about how many words I need to do that day, or I must do this amount by this time and all this kind of thing, because then you’re instantly putting so much pressure on yourself. And then it can cause you to actually have writer’s block or write stuff that you’re not happy with and write complete nonsense. And the times, I have put pressure on myself that I need to get this many words done by this time, I’ve looked back at it and thought last night of rubbish, and after Leto says I want to do that. Whereas when I just because my will, the way I write is very much I just just go with the flow with it. And just, if I knock out 50 words, which are amazing, then I’m happy if I knock out 5000 words, which were amazing, then I’m happy, but I don’t I don’t pressurise myself, I just just let myself create in the moments that I have in a day where I can do that, and just see where it goes and, and just kind of try be chilled out about it as much as possible.

Rasta
Okay, so for you with your process of creating the several short stories that we’ve seen from you, as well as your upcoming release The Path of Chaos, it’s, it’s been a matter of just finding those pockets of time and going. Well, I have this time. Let’s see what happens.

T
Yeah, absolutely. And also, when I do that, like, I mean, yesterday was a prime example. Because I, I tend to write in the evenings and at night, when everyone else has gone to sleep kind of thing and just spend that time. But if I like yesterday, I found a little bit of time in the afternoon. So I did a little bit of writing then. But what I did was I wrote something that then and I had to stop it because I had to get on with some, some stuff for the business. But I stopped it on a cliffhanger, which then meant in the evening, I was desperate to get back to it to finish what I was writing to, to kind of conclude that cliffhanger. And then I wrote another load of stuff, which was I was really, really happy with and that that just was wonderful for me. Because it kind of propelled me on. So sometimes I’ve starved myself for finishing a paragraph or something. So then I have to come back to it later in the day because I need to get it done. So I almost need to know what’s gonna happen myself. So it’s quite a motivational way of writing for me.

Rasta
Okay, so you find that easier to write with, sort of, at times, even when you have time to complete a thought or a section not doing so. So the next time you write you, you’re like, I have to finish that section.

T
Yeah, it’s quite, it’s quite, that doesn’t happen all the time. But when that does happen, it’s quite nice because I get excited about finishing it off, because I want to know where the story’s going myself. Because sometimes it goes completely differently to how you think it’s gonna go when you first start, start writing it.

Rasta
And know the when, as having written the book myself, I found it quite difficult to write and work at the same time, which is why I’ve only written one book and haven’t written short stories and such is just kind of finding that drive and that time and energy to devote to feeling good about the writing and also getting into the writing. So for you, how do you find the motivation on top of you know, dealing with being a father and being the owner of a business and having all these responsibilities, how do you find the drive on top of that to spend more energy as as a writer?

T
Well, I think actually, like I was actually thinking about this the other day and As part of that is, this is the one life I’ve got. And I’ve always been dreamt of being a writer. Alongside everything else I was doing. And back in 2015, I was really, really unwell, I had really, really severe depression, and it caused a lot of problems. And I was I was really, really unwell. And that’s what motivated me to do my Masters because I thought, this is the only life I’ve got, and I want to do so much more than what I’ve done. And I kept beating myself up all the time that I hadn’t done enough, and all this kind of thing, and really not being kind to myself. And so when I’m writing now, it’s like, I’m being kind to myself, I’m saying you can do this, and you’re good at it. And, and, and you’ve always wanted to do this. So just keep doing it for the rest of your life. Go for it. Because you can manage it, you can you can do it alongside everything else. Because because you can you’ve written the path of chaos, and it’s out there and for people to read. And that’s wonderful. So it shows that you can, you can manage it, Tom. So keep going with it, because it’s what you love. And that’s the thing, I just love it. So I’ll keep doing it. And manage my time. In a way that means that I’m not burning myself out as well.

Rasta
Okay, so for you writing is more than just a creative expression, but also kind of an expression of self love.

T
Yeah, absolutely is. It’s almost like I’m just saying to myself, that I’m proud of myself. And my writing is kind of expression of that. I think so because I always say many years, I wasn’t proud, proud of myself. And I always thought of myself in really poor ways. And so now I, I have, I’ve turned that round. And now I write because I’m like, Yeah, you can do this, and you’re good at it. And so show others how proud you are. So yeah, that’s it’s kind of a is a real element of like, of self self love, and like nurturing your mental health. And so I do it in a way to nurture my mental health. And that makes me kind of really happy.

Rasta
That does sound really wonderful to have a creative process for yourself that also lets you feel good. Once you’ve gone through and when you’re doing it right. And drain. Yeah, so. So with that you have the you know, this very long legacy with the family business of oyster farming. And you also have this budding creative outlets, so to speak with writing, do you feel any pressure or weight from these things? Or how do you feel about them?

T
Sometimes I feel the pressure because I mean with with the family business, it’s a is a long legacy to maintain. And, and the world has changed so much in recent years, because of service in the UK. You know, obviously COVID impacted the world on, on how businesses work. So it really changed how we had to approach business because it changed people’s it changed the way people are living, because it absolutely turn the world on his head. And in Britain as well. Brexit has massively changed the kind of the makeup of the UK and how we buy things and sell things and and so all these elements have really changed how to do business. So we’ve had to massively adjust to this very, very quickly to keep the business alive. So I’m always, always thinking about how to keep the business moving forward. And to adapt and change in a way that makes sure that we’re successful and keep being successful. So I feel that pressure because you can’t get complacent. Because within business, I’ve found that if you get complacent, it’s very easy to suddenly fall behind and you suddenly losing customer you’re not really sure why but because you’ve lost kind of lost interest. So there is that pressure. Because I want to I want to build a legacy for autumn. My two year old girl because she might become ninth generation oyster farmer if she wants to be or she’ll tell me that. That’s a silly idea. Why would you want to be rolling around and muddle the time and do something in the dryer or something, you know? Or be a fellow writer? I don’t know. But so yeah, there is that pressure because I feel the pressure that is eight generations, possibly nine generations of us as a family doing this and it’d be amazing to see it go on for who knows how many more generations so there is that pressure with the writing it’s so personal, isn’t it. So the only pressure I feel on the writing is pressure on myself to really do myself justice. But again, like I said, I do kind of approach it with a sense of self love. So to know that if I’m just, if I’m just writing with my passion and, and, and being relaxed with it, then I’m sure whatever I produce will be a true reflection of what I can do.

Rasta
I think that’s a wonderful way to view it. With that, it sounds like being a father has perhaps affected some of your views when it comes to the family business or other things or How has being a father impacted you if it if it has at all.

T
It’s it’s, I’ll say this to German the other day. Being a father as something may really make me kind of comprehend my own mortality, like kind of like, whoa, you know, like, I don’t know is like a new life suddenly makes you realize your life is a little bit finite, which is probably a bit is that bit like too morbid. But so, yeah, no autumn, like, because seeing her develop and grow and just blows my mind how quickly children develop and change and, and, like, you see this person like forming their own personality and trying to understand this mad world we live in from the very tiny eyes. And so it’s beautiful to watch. And it’s so innocent. And I think that impacted me in the all these I realized how we focus on such inconsequential stuff, we get really stressed out about really minor things in day to day living his life. And then when you see a little like autumn, she’s just just carefree and just loving. Learning and just taking the world around her in. And so I’ve suddenly realized that you can actually be, it’s actually good to be a bit childlike in in how you are as an adult, and not to really take everything too seriously. So with the business or with my writing is trying to just like be like autumn, just be relaxed and chilled out and just see what happens because we’re not really on this planet for very long. So. And when you start stressing about, I don’t know, someone’s parked their car in your parking space or something like who cares? Like, it doesn’t really matter does it? So, like the world is? So you know, with everything that’s happened recently, in this world? We really gotta like, embrace exactly what’s going on around us right now. And just, yeah, just kind of just been much more kind of like a child in how we view the world. I think that’s how being a father has impacted me. Definitely.

Rasta
I think that’s an interesting kind of opposites, opposite effects in a way, right? Because you’re looking down the line and being like, I don’t have much longer to live potentially. But then you’re also thinking I should I can embrace these moments and live in this moment, rather than always being stressed out about that time that’s coming.

T
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This is kind of like to see, like, I see some people around me who just get really, really stressed about such minor things. And, and I think, oh, goodness, like, we don’t need to be like that, because it doesn’t in the grand scheme of things, a lot of these things don’t really matter. Doesn’t really matter. And after like the awfulness of COVID and, and that alone, like, you know, we’ve really got to just embrace the moments now, aren’t we?

Rasta
Yeah, I definitely agree that that is existing in the now is something that’s difficult to do, even if we’re aware of it. But having this perspective can be really helpful to avoid stressing out too much about things.

T
Yeah, definitely.

Rasta
So I want to talk a little bit about about you and your process. As a person, I’ve noticed that you’re a very amazing and talented networker and that you connect with people very well. Those that networking and connecting with people and bought and all that come naturally to you, or is it something that you worked to kind of learn and master?

T
A bit of both? I mean, I’ve always my trade was said to me the other day, like he said, he was just recalling when we were when we were children, and I always used to be alright, I’ll show off. And I always, always trying to entertain people and happy to really, really gregarious, really happy to talk to anyone. So I’ve always, I’ve always been quite happy, just talk to people to strangers to anyone, like, just make them feel comfortable. So So whenever I get invited to a wedding when I used to be single before I met Gemma, like, if any friends were getting married, they’d always shove me on my own with a table for the strangers. And I’d be like, Why can’t I sit with friends? And they’re like, Yeah, because you’ll you can talk to me, you can make people comfortable. So I don’t know, like trying to, you know, like, talk to the strangers to make them feel kind of welcome within like that event or something. You know, I’ve always been quite happy to do that kind of thing. But then also, there’s a flip side of it is I hate small talk, but I can’t stand small talk. I can’t deal with it. I just find small talk. I don’t know. I find small talk really difficult. But when it comes to maybe networking and talking about bigger stuff, like bigger picture stuff, or something like that, whether it’s do business or writing, then I just I just love it. I’m in my element. But again, the lot there is a massive kind of learning curve with it as well, because I do you love to talk. So sometimes it’s holding myself back a little bit and letting someone else talk. As opposed to just going on and on and on. So yeah, there is a bit of there’s a natural side to it. But yeah, there is a especially within businesses I learning when to shut up.

Rasta
Yes, there is always going to be that balance right of you want to be in the conversation, but you don’t want to take over the conversation.

T
Yeah. Absolutely.

Rasta
And going on a little bit into small talk, I definitely think that I kind of have a similar experience with you where small talk is something that you know, you can do it right. But yeah, it seems so pointless a lot of the time.

T
Yeah, does, isn’t it? It really does. I’d rather just go when I meet new people, I’d rather just go eat straightaway than talking about the weather or something. The British love talking about the weather all the time. That’s what we do all the time. I mean, as an oyster fishermen, we do talk about the weather a lot, because we have to because we’re always monitoring the winds and the rain and all this kind of stuff. So the weather is pretty much part of our conversation every single day. But that’s got a purpose to it. But when? Yeah, a lot of small talk. It’s kind of like, can we just talk about like interest is I can’t go straight into politics, or is that not allowed?

Rasta
Let me get to know you. Right?

T
Yes. Right. Absolutely.

Rasta
Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree that there’s a small talk can be nice to kind of maybe get a little bit comfortable initially. But then after that, let’s just get into getting to know each other and on like, a genuine level, you know?

T
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Because everyone has a story, didn’t they? So you’ll know that story. So you don’t really care what they ate, they ate for dinner, you know, I want to know, like, I want to know about them.

Rasta
And so things are a little bit about you and digging into your story a bit here. You’ve got a lot of different opportunities that you’ve been exploring with, you know, your family, business, and with writing and everything. Do you feel like you’ve been deserving of these opportunities that you’ve been embracing? I know a lot of writers and people that I’ve talked with, and gotten to know, in general struggle with feeling worthy of their lives, and what they have, and that can be quite difficult. So how do you feel about that? And how do you manage that? If you do have negative feelings?

T
Yeah, I mean, 6, 7, 8, 9 years ago, I’d have definitely said I’m definitely not worthy of anything, and not worthy of any kind of success or anything. And even if I had successes, back then I’d tell myself that I wasn’t really that good or that successful or, or good enough at all. So don’t, don’t tell anyone about it. Whereas now, I feel DRM worthy, because at the end of the day, all writers know, the, the process of writing anything, whether it’s a short story or a novel, but writing anything you are putting yourself into that it’s very personal, and it’s hard. It’s not easy people, people don’t realize how hard it is to write. And so whatever you create, that makes you worthy because you’ve created something that some other people can’t do. And that alone is is worthy. So yeah, I I really, really feel like proud of myself all the time now and I and I remind myself that you can be proud of yourself because you’ve done something that is not easy. And you should really like tell the world about it.

Rasta
So if you the the process of having created these stories and you know written the path of chaos, has helped to solidify that confidence for you?

T
Yeah, absolutely. And, and that is it isn’t it is confidence. I just think it’s just being confident in yourself. And actually, the more if you’re confident in yourself, you actually create better content as well. Because you’re not, you’re not always kind of looking over your own shoulder going, Oh, is that good enough? Am I, you know, no, that’s rubbish. I’ve just deleted all that you kind of you kind of trust you trust your gut on your creative process, then because you’re, you’re feeling confident in yourself. And, and, and rightly so. Because it’s so easy to. I mean, it’s so easy to talk yourself down and think what you’re doing isn’t good enough. And it’s much harder to say to yourself, no, this is this is good. I’m proud of this. And, and that’s kind of, that’s a learning process, I think, to be kind to yourself with, with your creativity, or whatever you’re doing. So yeah, and that’s, I was taking me while I’m 41. Now, it’s taken me for 40 years to get there.

Rasta
Yeah, I mean, there’s quite the learning process. And, and I think it’s wonderful that you, man, that you’ve gotten to the point where you can feel secure within yourself and saying, what I’m doing is good. Right?

T
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. does take time. But yeah, I think I’m there.

Rasta
And so with your writing and with your, you know, your kind of your attitude with networking and the positivity about it, and that kind of natural draw towards it, you find that networking for your business, and just your your openness to connection has opened doors for you as a writer.

T
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, the good thing is, is because like, I get contacted, I’ve got like, a few journalists saved on my phone, who will text me or find me saying, you know, seeing if I’m free for radio interview, or a newspaper article, or whatever, about something to do with the business? Whether because I mean, the oyster industry here, there’s a lot of publicity about it all the time at the moment. Various things going on, in the UK, around the industry around the sea, you know, there’s a lot of interest in that. So always got people getting in touch with me, and then I tend to then throw in about the book as well, you know, yeah, we’ll have a chat about, you know, oyster farming. Oh, by the way, did I tell you, I’ve written a book to me about that, or forget, you know, the sub thing to cover that. So yeah, no, does because I can usually drop it into the conversation or the interview. You know, when it happens, I know now their business. And because the business is, you know, quite famous around around the area, and even into the UK, and actually parts of the world, because Mazzy always has a famous all around the world. It does give me great opportunities to then talk about my writing. Ya know, it really does help. Not to say they will always take me up on it, but it is what you need to tell them about it is.

Rasta
Yeah, of course. And that’s wonderful that you have a way to kind of connect more with your writing and perhaps reach a broader audience than you might otherwise be able to write.

T
Yeah, definitely. I hope that it gave me that confidence thing, it’s, it’s not being because I can easily just be coy and not tell them about the path of chaos, because I feel a bit embarrassed, maybe like, like, I’m kind of being a bit brazen or something. And again, it’s just having the confidence to talk about it. Because you know, at the end of the day, you created something and if you’ve got an opportunity to share it with someone who could give you a wider audience and go for it.

Rasta
Yeah, for sure. I definitely think that that is something that I would, I would suggest other authors and writers as well, as, you know, take every opportunity you can get to share your writing with people.

T
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Just yeah, just go for it.

Rasta
So following up on the idea of giving advice to other authors and writers give any advice that you’d give to authors about finding balance like you have with the many responsibilities that your juggling?

T
Yeah, I’d say that. A one thing to find balance is to not take yourself too seriously. Because when you take yourself really seriously and I put loads of pressure on yourself about what you’re doing, you end up being unable to find balance. Because you’re so kind of I used to do that like get so worked up that I needed to get this done and that done or I need to write this on a need to do This many words or I need to make this the best it can be and then kind of just worked myself into a little bit of like a stressful about it. And I wasn’t finding balance. So it’s kind of almost just take not taking myself so seriously and just being relaxed about what I’m doing and just seeing where it goes, if you suddenly find, you suddenly find that balance, it’s kind of like, I guess it’s kind of like being out on the water when I’m out on the water. Like, if I’m, if I’m putting too much pressure on myself about how many oysters I need to catch, then, then suddenly, I’m not catching as many because I’m stressing that I’m not getting enough. But when I kind of say no, don’t put a target on yourself, then it becomes much easier for me. So like with anything, as soon as you see putting pressure on yourself, it’s, it’s really, really hard to then like, focus properly. So yeah, to find the balance is just to be much more relaxed, I think.

Rasta
And so you mentioned a bit that you did use to put that pressure on yourself, right? Yeah. Is there anything? Is that? Is there anything that you wish you had done differently in the process of writing your first novel, while balancing everything? Perhaps, perhaps? Less pressure on yourself? Or maybe some other things?

T
Um, I think with the first novel with the path of chaos, like, I think there was a moment where I was kind of stressing that it wasn’t, wasn’t good enough. And maybe I wasn’t writing enough each day and things like that. So really, I mean, but then I think I’m not going to know I wouldn’t do anything differently as such, because I think well, at the end of the day, that creative process was what that creative process and what came out of it was a book I’m really proud of. It’s what it has taught me is just to remember the things I’ve been saying, like what I’m saying to other people is just just to be just be relaxed about what what you’re doing and, and let your creative kind of process happen. And enjoy where that takes you.

Rasta
So rather than doing anything differently, you’d rather just take the lessons you’ve learned from this process, and apply it to your future projects and things that you’re doing from here on out.

T
Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Rasta
Have you found anything surprising in this process, that you’ve learned that about how you’ve created balance or how you’ve gone about your, your process with your your life? Or your writing and such?

T
Yeah, how much I can do in a day? I don’t understand. Yeah, surprise, it is like that. I could do this. Wow. That’s quite amazing. Ya know, it also surprised me how thinking like, how inefficient I was with some work with the business before I was writing, you know, so I was like, Hang on, I’ve done the business is doing the best it’s ever done. And I’m writing a book. And I’m a family man. Yeah, shows you could do loads in a day. So yeah, that’s a surprising bit. It’s like, come on, quite productive.

Rasta
Yeah, it’s quite surprising that you have more that you’re doing, and yet somehow it’s also getting better.

T
Yeah, absolutely. It’s great.

Rasta
And so through this process of, you know, adding on more responsibilities, you know, becoming a father and all this, who would you say has been a person that’s really grounded you throughout this process?

T
Oh, definitely. My fiance Gemma. When I first met her, she kind of grounded me straightaway because she didn’t she didn’t kind of blow smoke up me kind of thing about who I was and things you know, because when I first met Gemma, I was writing quite a lot for some newspapers and stuff about mental health things and getting some front page stuff on there. And you know, and once I became arrogant about it, but I kind of maybe became overconfident about who I was meant to be. And what Jeff has been amazing is just kind of reminding me of like, my humanity, and just like not letting me get too big for my boots and just just keeping me grounded and saying, remember, you know, you know, just remember who you are, and it all kind of thing because there’s especially like with the business in that and we do get lots of publicity, and that can be easy to become kind of, I don’t know, think yourself as more famous than you really have been, I know Genesis really gradually cuz she just, she just because she cares for me and loves me and looks after me in many ways, and that just having that kind of unconditional love at home just makes everything much easier to handle and, and she just, she’s just really real with me and honest with me and I just love that because I just always have honest communication from her about everything. And that just keeps me focused and grounded. And, and I don’t, because I can be, I can kind of go off on another tangent and be a bit kind of suddenly, like, kind of get some really massive ideas without kind of realizing the practicality of it all, you know, so Jen just kind of keeps me focused to think about the here and now and get get one thing done at a time. You know, and and you know, that that just really keeps me in a good place. So yeah, general just, yeah, just keeps me in a really good place all the time. And SAS she is she massively changed my life when she came into it and, and helped me love myself. And that’s, that’s what’s really amazing about her.

Rasta
That’s really beautiful that you’ve connected with somebody who helps you to see yourself and understand, you know, keep yourself in perspective and also helps you to feel positively about what you have going on. And also not lose track of it. Right? Yeah.

T
Yeah. 100% Yeah, it’s lovely. Yes, she’s great.

Rasta
So with this process, you know, you have someone who is in your life that helps ground you but when you say with given that you have so much publicity with the the oyster business and then you know you’re interact with all these people. Have you experienced any naysayers? And if so, how do you deal with them?

T
Laugh. I’ve had some really like, I mean, I’ve been like, especially with them to do with Brexit and things I’ve like spoken openly about how bad Brexit has been for the UK, and especially the oyster industry. It was really a bad idea for the shellfish industry here in Britain. And online, especially on Twitter and stuff, like, had some I’ve had some really nasty stuff said on there, like, really nasty stuff. Oh, don’t realize people could be so horrible. And stuff through mental health. I’ve liked what I’ve read about that, in the past, I’ve had some really, like some people have been quite horrible. And just I’ve realized I used to get like, we all do get really focused on it and kind of died get quite angry. And now I realize that, again, life’s too short to really worry about these naysayers, because you’ve got to really enjoy the positivity from the people around you that are giving you that positivity. And that’s what you’ve got to draw on. Because if you draw on all these negatives, and what these negatives are happening around you, then that makes you negative. So I tend to ignore a lot of negative stuff, just completely ignore it. I don’t, I don’t engage with it. So I just treat it like it’s not there. Because at the end of the day, if people are naysayers and things like that, it’s more to do with them than you like it’s something going on with them that makes them be like that. So something for them to work out. And you won’t be able to change that you doesn’t matter how often you see them or how well formulated your argument is or your reasoning or, or anyway, like, you will never change how that person’s being because there’s something going on with them search for them to work that out, work through that and get to a positive place themselves. So yeah, I tend to just skirt around naysayers. It’s life’s too short to worry about them.

Rasta
If anything, that’s an important message to remember is, you know, when people are spreading this negativity, it’s, it’s because they have negativity in themselves. They’re trying to get out, right. And it’s not really about what you have going on. Because they don’t they don’t even really know what you have going on to begin with.

T
Yeah. It’s projection, isn’t it this project usually

Rasta
And so I do think that you have a wonderful way of handling or being like, yeah, they’re, they’re going through something, but I’m not gonna let that impact what I have going on with my life.

T
Yeah. Yeah.

Rasta
As one of the things going on with your life is that you have a currently two year old daughter.

T
Yeah.

Rasta
And with I’m curious, would you encourage your daughter to be a writer or an oyster farmer? Or do you have any ideas of what you’d like her to become?

T
I’d like her to be whatever she wants to be really. If she wants to be a writer, or she Yeah, she wants to be a writer or if she wants to go into the business become an oyster farmer, then then I’ll completely encourage her with that and give all the support she needs but I’ll give her It was what she needs, regardless of what she wants to do. I mean, to be honest, if she does want to become a writer or annoys farmer, then then yeah, be great for it, go for it. And then for her to show me how to how to do even better. So I like to see her become a writer and, and write something that puts, you know, like, puts my writing to shame or like to become an oyster farmer and, and show me an even better way to manage and run and grow the business. They say, yeah, like, oh, yeah, whatever she wants to do, I just want her to thrive really and, and just feel that freedom that she doesn’t have to, I don’t want her to feel the pressure that she has to do anything that I’ve done, I only wanted to do it if she really, really wanted to. So if for some reason, like, I think that I think the family business will keep on going for many, many years. If that means when I’m retired and don’t have autumn running it, but still have people running it, then that’s fine by me, you know, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think she should feel the pressure to go into the family business at all just because of its legacy. Because that’s not fair on her, I just want her to just be free in whatever she wants to do. And if she wants to be a writer, then be a writer if she wants to, I don’t know, be a lawyer, be a lawyer, whatever, you know, just whatever she wants to do, unless that’s the message I’m going to keep giving to her for for many years to come.

Rasta
And that’s a beautiful message. And I think it’s wonderful that you’re going to support her and you know her dreams.

T
Yeah, definitely. Because because I had I had some dreams when I was a kid. And I didn’t necessarily get to support for those dreams. So I don’t ever want him to feel that way that she didn’t have the support to follow in those dreams. So yeah, whatever she wants to do, go for it. And I’ll and I’ll be with her every step of the way.

Rasta
I think that’s wonderful. And with that, you know, you, you’re gonna you have your own things that you have going on with the business and everything. And that’s going to keep moving forward, just like she’s going to keep growing and potentially grow into the business or do something else believe. But do you have any upcoming projects beyond writing that you’d like to share with everybody that’s happening soon? Or perhaps now even?

T
Wow, well, I mean, with the business where we’re constantly trying to expand and grow what we do. So I mean, our family business because we have like a stall at Borough Market in London. And that’s, that’s always just so busy and vibrant and exciting. Borrow market alone is like really, really wonderful place. If you if you’re if you’re into food, and into people who are producing food, with real integrity, then you know, we love we love being a part of that. So I’ve gone if you’re in London checkout Borough Market, or back on mercy where our farm is like where we’re trying to kind of try and get people to really understand where food comes from, because a lot of time you, especially in Britain supermarkets kind of take away that personal process of where food is actually produced. So on the Boise is very much about if people come to mosey then they can see what goes on with how we farm our oysters, because we’ve got like a lot of the processing we do is on the waterfront. So mercy, there’s like a main strip of road which has got all the boats and you can see all the oyster beds and and there’s like where we process our oysters this black shed where we process our oysters. And so we kind of encourage people more and more to kind of see that and see what we do on on magazine ethics, if people are about and in this area of sex, and then come and see us because it’s always exciting to share what we’re doing with other people, because we’re really passionate about getting people to really understand that Providence of food.

Rasta
Yeah, do you think that the kind of how things end up on your play is very close, like closed curtains behind closed doors, not a lot is known about it a lot of the time. And so I do think it’s wonderful that you’re pushing for more transparency and more understanding from consumers to understand, hey, this is the process of oyster farming, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

T
I think we’re proud of what we do. And we want other people to kind of experience it and see it. And then unlike Britain, the British people are a bit funny about certain types of foods. So it’s for us, it’s educating people so they kind of get out of their comfort zone a little bit and try things new things like oysters.

Rasta
Yeah, definitely makes sense to me. And with growing projects and everything, I hope that you know, more people come to appreciate the process of oyster farming and hopefully with your all your projects they have going on that they go well. And for everybody who’s listening, be sure to check out Tom’s work and Tom’s projects. Tom, can you tell us where we can find you social media websites and all that?

T
Yeah, I mean, find me on Twitter @HawardTom, H A W A R D Tom. Or I have a website as well, TomHaward.com. So you can find me there, my my, my Twitter. It’s got a link to my link tree. And then that kind of takes you to everything. So it takes you to our family business website takes you to my author website. There’ll be links on how to buy my book, and other things on there as well. So yeah, there’s lots. You can definitely go that way and then see kind of everything of what what I’m up to and what my family is up to and what’s going on with The Path of Chaos. Yeah.

Rasta
It’s very wonderful. And thank you to all of our beautiful moms for listening and thank you for Tom for taking the time to come on to the podcast and talk with me today. It’s been a wonderful time having

T
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Great.

Rasta
For now, though, bye-bye