Episode 82: Chad Musick Imaginary Friends Interview
K
Hello my beautiful cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to The Writers Triangle, our podcast about publishing and all things books. And today I am with the author Chad Musick and who also happens to be my husband. I know Rasta usually does the interviews, but I’m like wait a minute. This is my third book with with my beautiful husband, and I wanted to do the interview. So I am because I’m the boss and I can.
C
How many books have you done with your average looking husband?
K
With what
C
With your average husband?
K
I’m sorry, I only do amazing. I don’t do average.
C
Okay.
K
Yeah. So you’re the only one I have my one and only my true love. My greatest. My greatest adventure has been being married to you. See, that’s like a really dicey compliment, isn’t it?
C
Especially I’m thinking like an adventure novel. Like, I don’t think our life has been an adventure novel.
K
No, but it has been my greatest adventure.
C
No, it’s kind of that’s kind of like, you know, volcanoes.
C
We traveled The world together.
C
That’s what I’m saying, it’s kind of like erupting volcanoes and that kind of thing. It’s very cool.
K
Like a quarter of a century into this gig. So you know, I hope it’s my greatest adventure.
C
Yeah
K
I hope it’s the funnest thing I’m doing.
C
Yeah.
K
So okay, this is your third book. So your first book is Not My Ruckus, which just traumatized the world. And then From The Lighthouse, which confused the world. And now you have Imaginary Friends. What are you going to do the world with this book?
C
I’m hoping to delight the world.
K
Awesome.
C
I’m hoping that as much as people were just like, sobbing in grief after Not My Ruckus they were like, why did you do that to me? At the end of Imaginary Friends that they’re crying and they’re going thank you for doing that to me.
K
So you still want to them cry.
C
Happy tears.
K
Yeah, I think so. There are also some really sad parts in Imaginary Friends. I think Imaginary Friends. For me, at least I had the whole gamut of emotions.
C
Yeah, I’m not sure that I could write a book without sad moments.
K
Why not?
C
Well, I think the type of book that I would write to try not have sad moments would be a technical book. And sometimes I’d have to discuss
K
There would be tears.
C
Yeah, exactly.
K
There will be tears, that would just be a horror book for me. So your expertise, you’re a mathematician, so you’d be writing a technical math book or a technical data book and I’m not gifted in either areas. So I think you’d be a very gifted technical writer. I just think for me to try and read it, it would be very challenging for me to be able to get with it.
C
Yeah.
K
I don’t find that with your fiction. I really enjoy your fiction, which is why I publish it. And I’m y’all I am cold blooded enough to tell Chad no, if I didn’t like the book. It’s something that makes you very nervous about giving me your books to read,
C
I do have one book that’s been trumped, as they say, because you’re like, no this book. Nobody’s gonna understand it. There’s not gonna be an audience for this one.
K
How does it feel to have a wife that owns a publishing company, but not being guaranteed that your books will be published?
C
I mean, I get a better response rate, I think, than most authors and agents. So I don’t deal with the ghosting problem.
K
Yeah, not at all.
C
And I get feedback on what would I have to do to get this one published? Because I really care about this one.
K
Yeah. And then you had a book that you that you started, and I sat down at your desk, and I started to read it, and I got smacked away. Not you didn’t smack me. I like to say I got my hand smacked when I do something that you don’t like, but you’ve never struck me.
C
Thank you for clarifying that.
K
Pow, how dare you read that?
C
Yeah, yeah. So I have things in the works that I don’t know when I’ll finish them. When I finish them, I don’t know if they’ll be for a general audience.
K
So you do write books just for you.
C
I do write books just for me. Yeah.
K
Nice. With this being your third book, is it less exciting or more exciting with the launch?
C
I think it is… both. I think in terms of being realistic. It’s more exciting. Like if I had known what I know now, this is my most exciting one. I think like anything, my first one, I thought I’m gonna sell a million copies of this. And so that was exciting to know, I was gonna sell a million copies, like going and buying a lottery ticket knowing you’re gonna win.
K
Yeah.
C
That now I’m a bit more realistic about it. I know how many copies are likely to be sold like in like very good sales or average sales. So it’s still exciting to get the story out there. Because it’s a story that I really think will resonate with people and that I think, many more people will like and enjoy. I think the point of view in Not My Ruckus was a lot of people thought it was claustrophobic, like super, super close into the main character’s head. And this one is the first book that I’m publishing that has a third person narrator.
K
It is. And anybody who follows the press knows I really love multiple perspectives. He has a lot of our books have multiple points of view. Yeah. I don’t think that Imaginary Friends for me feels like multiple points of view. I do think that there are two distinct storylines that merge.
C
Yeah, I think there’s there’s two big storylines that merge. And then there’s a third one that kind of ties them together. And then there’s the overall plot.
K
So share a little bit of the premise of the book.
C
So the premise of the book is that there’s different powers in the world that can do things like one of the first powers on this one, I think, will be people going high. Even people who read it going high and thought about that, is that Santa Claus is real. Yeah. And then, and lizard, the North Pole. Yeah. So Santa Claus is not part of this book.
K
But it’s not a Christmas book. But it has nothing to do with Christmas. So I found that to be the most interesting thing for you to pick, like bizarre like, Why are you picking Santa? Okay, I think having Mary Queen of Scots be real, is more interesting than, like, in the book, there’s more interesting. They don’t want to say house. I see why you didn’t. Yeah, cuz that’s kind of a spoiler. If I say
C
yeah. So at the South Pole, live, Sandra, is what at the South Pole is Sandra? Yeah. Who makes deliveries of non Christmas things. And so the book starts off with Sandra, making a delivery of doors that lead into the library. And so the library has the library and has also done their power. So power is isn’t necessarily immortals is just kind of like supernatural ish things that go on. And it’s written in the style of magical realism. I think. I’ve done a lot of thinking about like, what’s the difference between fantasy and magical realism and such? I think fantasy and speculative fiction is a lot about what if magical realism is more like, this is the way it is now what?
K
Yeah, I think that’s a good way to break it down. And for me with the book, I really, I really enjoy that type of writing. And I do read those types of books for fun. And I would I, every time I buy a book, including yours, I asked myself, what I read this book for fun. And I would actually pick up Imaginary Friends for fun. Not My Ruckus. I wouldn’t read it for fun, but I felt like it was an important book to have out in the world. I felt like the topic of it was very topical and important. And to get people to think about things differently. Yeah. I think when I was younger, I would have read it because it’s very, it’s trauma filled, and I now as I get older, I find that my enjoyment of reading trauma filled books has lessened. And then from the White House, I was completely unfamiliar. And this might make everybody think I’m completely uncouth. But I had no idea what a Fisher King story was. And for me, I was just lost. And for me the entirety of from the White House was a mushroom trip, like if you took out into the forest, like that was that book to me. And that’s how I accessed it
C
from the Lighthouse has, has like stream of consciousness from an unreliable narrator. Yeah. And if you kind of just go with the flow, I think people will enjoy it. But if you’re trying to like it’s not a Harlequin romance, for example. And I say that because Harlequin has perfected a formula to get people to read them and it’s very tightly plotted and you can predict like which page number the first kiss is going to be on because it’s, yeah, you’ve got a structure and you fill in the details. And from the lighthouse doesn’t have a lot of structure. Um, there are
K
no guardrails and from the lighthouse, you have to go into that book. I feel like a confident reader who trust themselves to interpret literature. Yeah, that they’re going to feel really comfortable in that book and people who want the book to be more reliable and providing the structure and the trustworthiness for them are going to be uncomfortable reading from the lighthouse. Yeah,
C
so from the lighthouse. I said, What if I tell the hero’s journey but here was the dragon and usually in the hero’s journey the hero is the dragon is the kind of ultimate test and the villain
K
I think is very much an antihero from my house at If not is very much an antihero.
C
Yeah, following an anti hero’s quest. And so that was written almost to see if I could do it because it’s weird. Like it’s first person, it’s present tense. And I’m proud of what came out. I don’t think it’s gimmicky. But it’s an uncomfortable way to start if you’re expecting a story to be told to you for fun. And so imagine
K
literary reviewers, like Bluehost in them. And Kirk has really, really enjoyed it. Yeah. Because it’s very high minded, though it is very high minded. It takes itself very seriously, it does with the most ridiculous of circumstances. Yes. And I found that to be very enjoyable.
C
And Imaginary Friends, I set out to tell a story that was fun and funny.
K
It still has your trademark trauma, you still very, I find all of your books to be a very cathartic read for me. Yeah. And terms of like, but I also see feel very seen, heard and validated. And I feel like my I can, I can always identify with something in the books. And so I feel really connected in them. And you’re not writing them for me. Because that is what I asked you to write, you know, that book that you told me,
C
I know the book that you want me to write, and I don’t think I’m gonna write that book.
K
I know you’re never gonna write it. And you should. So just so y’all know, about 18 years ago, Chad wrote five pages of a novel that I absolutely loved, and has not written a single word sense in that book. And so now that you’re writing again, you know, let’s go, it’s a great concept. And the concept of the book is dark, it’s really dark. There’s a baby that hasn’t been baptized, that dies, and God and the devil are talking about whether or not it should go to half. And I just, I loved it. And it was very much based in the the Catholic view that if you die before you’re baptized, you go to hell. And if you’re a Catholic, and you don’t understand that way, I’ll take very much in my grandmother’s Catholicism, Catholicism. Yeah, yeah, grandmother really believed. And we’re spending a lot of time with my grandmother at the time that you’ve read that? Yes. I just I, it was really well read. And and it was so good and so clever. And I find that all of your books have that, that feeling of cleverness to it. And I think for some people reading a book, where the author knows that they’re clever, and is enjoying, that I think can be challenging. And I think that Imaginary Friends that’s less evident, I feel like not is the height of you enjoying your cleverness?
C
Yeah, Imaginary Friends, the basic premise is that these two teenagers, their Imaginary Friends are very much real to them. And physical, and they are, in fact, physical, but they’re also like real and alive. And they go into the library together to, like, get some promises fulfilled that the librarian has made to them, and they end up stuck, and have to kind of work their way out of the library.
K
Yeah, and I think it’s a really fun romp through history, but not. And it’s really cool that it goes through history without being historical, if that makes sense. Right? There are historical figures in it, but you’re not transported to the time that they were alive.
C
Well, and there’s no guarantee that they’re accurate, because what it is, is that they are the historical figures as regarded by various writers.
K
Yeah. It’s very much based in what has been written about people in terms of who they were
C
right, like it as a kind of non spoiler, and it’ll make sense when you get to it. In that world. Cleopatra is black. And historically, there has been like, debate among scholars, and I think the general consensus is that his Cleopatra was Greek, but there’s not total consensus even on the scholar the world. So rather than diving into all that, and saying, I’m gonna get the history, right, yeah, I got, okay, if I just picked some writers, and what do they say about it? And I write it from that perspective, knowing that this is a library. And so things are as they’re written down. Yeah. So whether they’re true or false, and the outside world doesn’t matter, because in library, this is how they’re written down.
K
So how does it feel to have so we have a PR list at the press D number one, have Imaginary Friends, that’s based on the premise be the number one requested book on our peer list.
C
I feel like I read a good title and a good blurb.
K
Like you did a really great synopsis and I feel like I did a great synopsis of that synopsis. Yeah, that’s what our PR list gets, is they get the synopsis of the synopsis written by me and they get to choose so at the beginning of actually at the midpoint because I’m about to send them out for the 2024 calendar. Around August of every year. Our entire appeared list gets our catalog. And if they get like, five or six lines snippet of the book describing the book, and everybody was like, yes, that book. And I was really surprised that, that there are fans of, of you that are on this journey with you that are completely digging the journey. They’re completely into what you’re doing. And they love that every book is going to be something completely different. And a new facet of you with that same level of flow and texture that you have in your writing. How’s that feel for you for the ones that are on the ride? When you think about it?
C
That’s exciting. Because when I sit down to write a book, the first thing I figured out is what is the voice of the book going to be? Like Not My Ruckus to 14 year old girl in her head? That’s the voice of the book. And some of the comments on that are like, I’m not sure I believe that a man wrote this, because this is how I thought as a 14 year old girl, and I’m like, All right. Yeah, I got that. With this one. It was, you know, what would this fictional character, what would the voice in their head be? And how would they tell a story? So when I say it’s a third person narrator there’s like different ways to do it and there’s down Nish and narrator and stuff. I have a third person narrator who’s sees all the story, but is a minor part of the story. Yeah, and has very much opinions about things that are happening. And so it’s not the neutral. Like the character walked across the room. It’s very much like, it’s about time that character walked across the room.
K
Yeah. I feel like it doesn’t take the imagine. Does the narrator does not take themselves too seriously. No. And therefore the novel doesn’t take themselves too serious doesn’t take itself too serious. That’s
C
the aim. Yeah,
K
that was intentional on your part to have sort of this. For me, it felt like I had permission to think whatever. I thought, yeah, it wasn’t any sort of holding my my head in a particular direction and saying go that way.
C
I don’t believe in my heart. I don’t believe that there’s anything such as a reliable narrator where you can always trust what they say. And so I write my narrators that you don’t have to trust that they can say you can read between the lines, you can just totally trust them, you can think that they’re lying about things to make themselves look better or worse. And, and I play with this idea in a way that I hope is fun for the audience that I’m I hope I’m playing with the readers rather than playing in front of the reader at their expense.
K
I think you’ve definitely are this is a really fun book. And something that I noticed in all of your books is that there is always LGBTQI plus representation in your books.
C
Yes. Is that intentional? Yes, that’s intentional.
K
Why do you think that that’s the way to go?
C
I think that it’s not realistic to leave it out. And so it depends on where the book is set that there are certain things that are left out. And if they’re left out, then it’s usually a very exclusionary thing. Like, one of the things about my raucous is that all of the main characters are white. Yes. And it’s because of the time and the place, and the isolation. So it’s not a full world, it’s a very limited perspective, it
K
opens with two female characters kissing. Yeah.
C
So it’s because it’s from the perspective of that character has been very sheltered from the realities of the world and is experiencing one reality they have been sheltered from, but doesn’t experience other realities. I try to write in a way that is real. And like, if you look at the US population, I think the average is 8%. Across all of the US identify as being part of the LGBTQ plus community. But among the younger generation, it’s 20% or so. And people are saying, Oh, it’s infectious.
K
But what do you mean by younger generation? So I’m in my 50s? Yeah, for me when you say the younger generation, I think from 16 to 25.
C
Yeah, that’s, that’s basically yeah, yeah. half my age. Yeah, exactly. less than less than half your age. Yeah.
K
So in looking at the LGBTQ plus representation, I think it’s important to talk about it, how it’s represented in this book, because I thought you did something really smart with it. And that is you took a character on their own journey of self discovery, and how they felt about their sexual orientation and what that meant for them, and also the impact that their their own self discovery had on their relationships with friends, and how it changed. means, and I thought it was done really smart. And it also for me captured a part of the population where the trauma is it is their own internalized homophobia, it wasn’t actually any homophobia in their lives. And it’s brief. It’s only a, I think, a half a chapter in the book. But I think it’s just captured so beautifully. Where did you get that intelligence from?
C
I think just living it. I think like, you know, growing up Mormon and, like, have Mormon friends and family, nothing against anybody in particular, but it was very much like this doesn’t exist, don’t talk about it, if you think it exists, you are imagining things. So if you have a gay friend, now you have an imaginary friend. And there’s just a lot of like, these things can’t exist, and don’t talk about it. And so I try to include characters. Within my books that existed always, but people didn’t always talk about, and I, I don’t feel like I am capable of taking on. Let’s say IV is one of the main characters. I can’t take on IVs perspective, I don’t understand it deeply enough. And so
K
like just something you and I talk a lot about, because I’m multi, multi ethnic, and I’m black, indigenous, and Jewish, and IV is black. And I don’t know what else some kind of white, or I don’t know what flavor of white
C
IV just identifies as black, read the book if you want like,
K
and is also a wheelchair user. And we did reach out to friends who are wheelchair users, because those aren’t, while you do have mobility issues, you don’t use a wheelchair. So I think that you’re very smart in terms of who you reached out to, to get this education from and like with the Japanese culture that’s in the book, he taught, you know, children that are of that age. We live in Japan, in Japan. And so I think it was really smart. I think you’re good at understanding where your identity stops and starts in terms of expertise. Where does that kind of cultural sensitivity come from for you, because that’s not how you were raised.
C
I think it’s from being raised so isolated, and then moving to California when I was an adult. And not Southern California, which I lived in Bakersfield as a kid, which was still very much isolated. Life with grandma didn’t really see anybody else. And just meeting various people. The first job I worked in San Francisco, I got invited to go to the Star Wars revival when the original Star Wars movie, you know, was was released. And I show that yes,
K
we’re old enough that we saw that original Star Wars movie when it was released. And old enough that we remember. Yeah, yeah, that’s real Bibles and such. Why put a date on us?
C
Yeah, so they had a sticker. And like, everybody had a character that they were I don’t remember who I was because minor character. But I’m walking with this group of like, 10 people, most of them are from work. Some of them it’s like people’s boyfriends or girlfriends. And then they start chanting, we’re here. We’re queer. We’re walking down the street. We’re here. We’re queer. We’re going up the escalator. I’m like, okay. You know, at that time, I was like, that’s not quite me. But I know these people and these people, my friends. Now a lot of fun. And this is the same group that you know, we went out to Moran Brewing Company, which I don’t know if it’s still a restaurant, it was a restaurant. And somebody was, like, making comments about one of the system administrators because it was a tech company. And people were like, are you gonna say anything? And he said, I’m a 300 pound bear, with 10 of my friends here. Yeah, they’re talking because they are too afraid to do anything else. And this kind of feeling of safety from community from having a diverse community with gay people with straight people with people who declined to identify as either made me feel like okay, this is a full enriched world in which, like, the characters that aren’t the main characters of the book. I want people to feel like they still have a life. Like they’re not just there to make a plot point.
K
Yeah, I feel like every character was very intentional. I didn’t feel like there were any filler characters. Yeah. And I think that that really well done. And I think that and in all of your books, there is a message where the characters from like all Have your characters are looking for their place in the world? Is that a theme that you feel is through all of your books? Or is that just my perception, the way the books landed on me?
C
I think that there’s only a few stories to be told. And, you know, a lot of kind of scholars of literature we’ll talk about this, there’s, you know, a stranger comes to town or somebody leaves their hometown, and minor, generally in the Sunday leaves their comfort zone, they don’t necessarily leave their hometown literally, in two of them, they do and one of them they don’t. But so it is like a journey book. And I think that tends to have a certain structure. And I like that structure, and I like exploring what can be done within that structure.
K
I know that all of the books are related through the Tarot, but in looking at the books if I didn’t know that, I can’t see it. So how does how is that working for you that all of these books are related to the Tarot, okay, so
C
they’re not all related through the Tarot. Okay, from the lighthouse focuses a lot on tarot, because that’s how not the main character understands things is through that lens of magic. Yeah, they all occur in the same universe, at least in my head.
K
So I thought the universe was based on the terrorists I got that a little bit wrong. So bad wife. So I’ll let the author tell you how they’re related.
C
So in my head, you know this Not My ruckus is set in the 1980s. In Texas, it’s except for like, a few points. It’s super realistic. I did a lot of research. Like, who won? What baseball game on what day of the week in 1981? And how do people feel about Reagan’s election? What did they actually say? I feel like that’s in the same world as Santa Claus is real. And there’s this little dragon who has beef with Santa Claus and wants to, like, go to blows with Santa Claus. But you can read that story in our Anthology. And I think we might be reprinting that in.
K
It’s coming. It’s in the Go check out cinnabar moth literary collections, then magazine, not book it the story was republished, again, I started the the lead up as sort of a companion and way to also cross promote your back catalogue while promoting your new book.
C
Yeah. So in, in from the lighthouse, there’s dragons. And there’s fairies. And there’s a lot of powers in that way. And Imaginary Friends, the powers are librarians and lawyers and massage therapists and like
K
nothing written in through in terms of like, the power structure is really way friendly. So it’s not technical lawyers and technical. Yeah. And it’s very much a why a book in terms of access for reading level. And
C
it is yeah, it’s a it’s an imaginary friend telling story. To other to other young people.
K
Yes. It does have a very youthful feel. I didn’t feel that from the lighthouse had a youth fulfill? No. And I felt like Not My Ruckus had a youthful field. That was completely inappropriate for you. Yeah. So what was happening? And that was very much an adult book. Yeah.
C
Which took me a while to understand because I had BETA readers. And I had critiquing partners. And I said, I’m writing this white book, and all of them said, This is not a white book. You’re not I
K
said, it’s yeah, it was a whole discussion. Yeah.
C
But this one really is a why a, maybe the middle grade, if, if, you know, advanced middle grade readers might really enjoy it. Why, but it’s also got kind of the jokes for adults, which doesn’t mean dirty jokes. It just means jokes that, you know, if you aren’t a certain age, you’re gonna miss it because you don’t know the context. But you won’t feel like you’re missing it. It’s not
K
different. Like those are like Easter eggs. I feel like Mary Queen of Scots is an Easter egg. Now. I think I’ve made an Easter egg by mentioning it. Yeah. And not detailing it. It’s a snapshot moment in the book. That’s just hilarious. All the beta readers thought it was a hilarious moment as well. And when y’all read it and get that park, back, yes, Christopher. Nice one. But I guess you should make me saying yes, Chad. Nice one, because I didn’t write it, highlighted it. Do you feel like the saying that they’re inside jokes? They feel like Easter eggs to you?
C
I think so. Yeah. I think that they’re, I think that they’re for people who see them to enjoy, but they’re not critical to the plot. You’re not missing anything if you don’t see them. And the ones that are critical to the plot are not, you can’t miss them. You might not know the reference, but you don’t have to know the reference to enjoy it.
K
I think that there is a sort of continuity In your writing, in terms of just being really tightly written, I think you’re a very tightly written author. In this book, did it feel freer for you in terms of the writing style? Do you feel like you have a signature writing style? Do you feel like someone can pick something and be like, yeah, that’s Chad.
C
I think that I have a signature writing style, but it varies. And the thing that’s common is the voice, the voice is always going to be 100%. consistent. So
K
there’s gonna be 100%. Interesting, consistent. Okay, so, as I go head on with it, it is 100%. Yesterday, as I’m gonna say that my books are interesting.
C
I think there are writers that I, including ones that I really enjoy, who their narrator is sometimes just kind of dispassionate, and just dispassionately relaying the story. Sometimes they’re talking as if they’re the character, which is called third person, close point of view. Sometime, like, they’re just kind of doing what’s necessary for the story. So the voice fits to the story. And I think in mind, the story fits to the voice.
K
That’s a good point. With my rackets, it was the runner up for the Montaigne medal, and first of all, not for fill it in
C
for the general fiction category in the Eric Hoffman awards. Yeah, it was also a finalist for the grand prize for that. And finalist for the first horizon Award, which was for first novel,
K
yes. And from the lighthouse is still in the awards process, which I think is a complete trip, because it was published in February of 2022. And here we are May of 2023. And all of the awards that it was submitted to have not announced yet, so we don’t know where that’s out with awards. What are you hoping award? wiser? Do you when you write Do you have a word hope?
C
I don’t think I have a word hope I have reader hope. Yeah. I hope that readers pick it up and enjoy it. And I hope that it gets into the right hands. Like if you told me 10,000 People are going to be dripper. I’d be like, awesome. My wife owns the presses is going to be great. Thanks and good money.
K
Wonderful for everybody. That’s right. Yeah.
C
But he told me, okay, my money aside, do you want 10,000 people to read it? Who are just like, Oh, interesting book? Why are 10 people to read it? I think, finally, I know that there’s somebody out there who gets me, I would pick the 10.
K
Nice. I think that’s an awesome way to go into writing. Do you feel like you can identify as an author? Is author part of your identity?
C
I think writer is I think author is not?
K
What’s the difference for you?
C
I think people should should say whatever they want. Like if you’ve written something, and you want to be an author, you’re an author. Yeah, I think for me that to be an author would require more discipline on my part, would require kind of sitting down at least several times a week, or at least on a schedule. And being able to say, right, I’m writing this book a year from now the book will be written. And, you know, some authors, I think it’s a year some are 10 years. Like, there’s some
K
authors who took them 10 years to write the novel that we published. And we have other authors, one author that just a warm spot in my heart that wrote and wrote a book for us and mine man’s. And that’s the heart. You know who you are. I love you, thank you so much for that. And I was blown away that they were able to do it, super appreciate it. And it was unreasonable of me to ask. I’m just saying that. Yeah, the fact that they care is awesome. And that was just the dynamic that we have.
C
But you know, there are Pulitzer Prize winning books that took the author 25 years, right. And it’s all there ever wrote. And there are kind of authors who have Nobel Prizes for like, I write a book a year. Yeah. So I don’t have any feelings about how long people should take. But I know that I don’t know how long I take. Because when it stops being fun and interesting, sometimes I just put it down and go. That one’s not getting finished. Yeah, cuz
K
I’m 2023. We’re having conversations about whether or not you wanted to be on the 2025 2026. Schedule, if I needed to, yeah, a month for you. And that’s really tricky for us, because I have to put it on a schedule having never read a word that you’ve written. Yeah. And then if I don’t like it, I have to have a book and reserve but I always have to have books and reserves in case you know, authors can’t meet their commitment. But it is a little bit trickier when you’re married to the author and be like, come on now. And so we’ve learned that I can’t be waiting for a book for you. Yeah, it’s better for you to just write a book and then do it rather than me saving a spot because I go where’s my peaches? Where my peaches
C
yeah and Imaginary Friends. was finished four or five years ago. I think I’ve reread it before it was published. I think it still holds up. But you’ll see a few things in there that you’re like, wait a minute, this thing happened years ago? Is that what’s being referenced than yet? Probably, it was probably current at the time that I wrote it.
K
Was the process different. So we didn’t publish your books in the order that you wrote them? No. How does your How was your process change? Do you feel like you’ve matured, you feel like you’ve come more into yourself? Has it changed?
C
No, I feel way less mature. I feel like when I started writing, I was working at a, an editing and translation company. So I was working on writing all day, every day. And now I’m working back in tech. So I’m not working on writing all day, every day. And that has affected kind of the diligence with which I write because I don’t get up every day and get into a mood of, Okay, today, I’m going to correct 50 pages of technical material. And then I’m going to write as a palate cleanser, this fiction.
K
So are you able to, are you able to enjoy writing more now that you’re not a technical editor?
C
I think I do enjoy it more. But it doesn’t provide the relief, because I don’t have the stress of so much technical stuff.
K
And do you have any of your three novels that have been released? Or any of your works that haven’t been released? Do you have a favorite? Is that your favorite change based on mood? Or do you have just one that you’re the most proud of? Or the one that you love the most?
C
I think Not My Ruckus is the most personal for me. Yeah. And from the White House is the most liquid I could do for me. But what I could do
K
much. So it felt like you were sort of flexing your literary muscle.
C
Yeah. Yeah. And Imaginary Friends is the one that if you said, Hey, can you give a reading? I would want to read from Imaginary Friends. Because to the public, because Not My Ruckus. I’m not going to read that to anybody. I’m not, like got a really close relationship with. Yeah. So yeah, they I love all my literary children. The same, but for different reasons.
K
Are there any specific milestones you hoped that imaginary friend reaches?
C
I hope that it reaches being listed as class literature for something.
K
Nice. That’s a good one. Yeah. Are you looking at it? Like? Are you wanting it on like a summer reading list? Are you wanting it to be what a literary professor assigns as part of reading for college level? Class?
C
I’m happy with either one.
K
Yes, mine, someone and official and official capacity? Yeah, we’ve achieved that with some of our other Yeah, we haven’t. We haven’t. Actually Not My Ruckus did make it to a college reading list. Yeah. From the lighthouse, I would have to look at my notes. I feel so bad. Like, I wouldn’t feel bad if I was just your polish. And I didn’t have all of your stats in front of me. Yeah, I feel really bad. As you’re wondering, I don’t know this off the top of my head. But this is like its job. And I have other books I’m thinking of Yes. And I find that I’m more focused on books that are coming. Yes, looks that are being launched. Because more active like, you know, and books that I have to read, like to go out of control right now. And I am thinking more on those books than I am on other two books.
C
Well, that’s coming up May and you asked me in August, you’re like, I need the final manuscript. Do you have? Yes, yes. I do.
K
Like, are you sure? Yeah. It it’s a process getting the books from Yes. Because you tell me now. And my other authors just hide from me. I find that Yeah. The ebb and flow. And then I have other authors that turn in the books just at random times. And I’m like, I just really don’t have the time to read it. And so the due date of a book is this is the time I have scheduled to read your book and prioritize your but if you set it to make an announcement advance to just get it out of your life and move on. Awesome. I love that. Just now I’m not going to read it. Yeah, until the day that I’ve scheduled to read it because my reading schedule is tight.
C
It is sometimes I’ll ask you, Hey, can you read something like Is it a book? Yeah.
K
What do you want me to read? How many pages that I ask? Is that a book? Is it a scene? What do you want me to read?
C
Because my time now it’s just an email.
K
Yeah, like, oh, yeah, sure, no problem. So looking at the writing process, and owning yourself as a writer and saying, Yes, I write for a living Do you tell people about your books?
C
I do tell people about my books. Yeah. What do you tell them? I tell them don’t read it.
K
Is that what you say?
C
I tell people about my books. And I say, if you’re going to read that my raucous, be aware that it is a very heavy book. Don’t go into it and read it because you’re my friend go read it, it should interest you. And I think that’s the same thing. I tell them for the other stuff. Like, I don’t expect my friends to read my books, just because they’re my friends. I expect that my book friends do read your books. Well, yeah, I mean, I write
K
and get the books for free, they should read them. The least they could do is leave a good with Goodreads review. They don’t leave Goodreads review with that annoys them. Like I give you a book for free review. I’m sending you a book, give me a review. Break me off some love
C
on the people in my life where my friends are the people who find me funny. That’s not the only requirement but it’s a pretty big requirement
K
for you, they don’t show your sense of humor and interesting.
C
So I think that when they read it, they’re like, Okay, yes, this is Chad’s sense of humor. This is Chad sense of justice and the world and how things work. And they mostly know it. So I think they mostly enjoy my books.
K
What’s your greatest takeaway from writing imaginary friend?
C
Um, I think my greatest takeaway is it’s okay to write a book that people want a sequel to and not have that sequel. What? That that’s my takeaway. Say it again. It’s okay to write a standalone book. And I think even in like middle grade and fantasy, and
K
where are you getting this met? Okay, to write a standalone book,
C
there’s been a lot of pressure from the publisher.
K
Oh, okay. Cuz, see, now you started. To open this, all of you have completely written a prequel to this book that you will not edit and finish.
C
It’s only half written. If it were fully written, I would add it and finish.
K
It’s three, four. So that will split the difference is three fourths of the way written. Okay, you could finish it in a month.
C
Probably. Yeah.
K
Okay. That’s what I’m saying. So you write a book. That’s good. You haven’t you read all the different iterations of the book, I make space for it. I fall in love with the characters and invested in the story. And you’re like, huh, I don’t think I want to finish this one. Exactly. And it’s a prequel. And it’s an awesome prequel with great characters, and it has one of the characters that is everybody’s favorite character and Imaginary Friends. It’s their story. Yeah. So, you know, fight me,
C
when people are asking for a sequel to Not My Ruckus. And I’m like, now that story is done. Yeah, but like, but you didn’t, like go a long way into the ending. And then like, because that that story is done like this, this is what I mean about the plot suits the voice, is that there’s no more voice to be had in that story. There are more events that happen.
K
But basically, you don’t care about your fans, is what I’m hearing,
C
I care more about my characters than about my fans.
K
I say pointedly because I’m your biggest fan like so basically, you don’t care about me. You don’t care about my curiosity, or what I want out of your writing process.
C
As a fan, I don’t. That’s why if my books are for you, my books are for you. And if they’re not, they’re not. And I don’t take that personally,
K
I think that’s a good attitude to have. Have you had one piece of advice that you are giving someone who’s so I think three pieces of advice, one piece of advice for someone who wants to start to write one piece of advice for someone who’s in the middle of the writing process, and one piece of advice for someone who’s trying to get published.
C
So I think if you want to start to write, I think about figuring out what story you want to tell. Rather than figuring out like the genre or how your book is going to fit into the marketplace, think of a story first, think of what characters populate that story and, and just write something and then go back and refine it. So a lot of the things that are highlighted in the book, were either throwaway lines or not there at all. And when I reread it, I realized, hey, I can tie all these things together and make like motifs and various other words that come from French. What was the second one?
K
For someone who is in the middle of the writing process?
C
I think if you’re in the middle of the writing process, keep going because what I found was that the days that I wrote that it just felt easy. And the days that I wrote that it felt like I was dragging every word out by its teeth. When I reviewed those notes, I couldn’t tell which day was which the quality of the story because I knew a story I was telling the quality of the writing was pretty much the same. So it you don’t have to be in a flow state to write. And if you get flow state sometimes that’s great. But it doesn’t mean that your work is only going to be good when you’re in a flow state. Yeah, that’s true. And then somebody who wants to get published, honestly, I would say I have gone about it completely the wrong way. Because you go about it. I went about it by writing the books I wanted to write. And then keeping them that way. And I think that they’re hard to categorize sometimes. And they’re hard to describe sometimes. And a lot of the feedback that I got from literary agents, because I’ve been, I finished my raucous and Imaginary Friends a long time before cinnabar. Moth started. Yeah, so I got feedback from agents and things on them. They didn’t quite know where to put them. Because they don’t fit cleanly into a category. And so realize that if you’re trying to publish, it’s about the marketplace, rather than about your book. And and I
K
think that’s, that’s a hard target to hit. Because what the marketplace is today is not what it will be next month.
C
Absolutely. Like right now, I think you can get books about zombies published, but three years ago, nobody could get a zombie book published. And it’s probably going to be you know, the zombie book. Yeah, we do. Yeah.
K
And so cannibals guide to fasting as a zombie book.
C
Yeah. So I think that, you know, hold on to your book, if it’s good. Keep it going. Some people get their, you know, get a few books published, and then get their first one that they love to publish some people it takes a while.
K
Yeah, and I think something that was hard for you is that even though I’m the owner of the press, I did not take your books, as they were, they were things I asked you to change. And every single book that we’ve published if yours, and there have been books that I’ve taken, just the way they are, but that is really, really rare. Yeah, I don’t have any content notes for the first book, I find that usually a second book in a series, I don’t have those content notes about because they already know like, what my tastes but is and and we work together. So I work really closely with all of our authors, not everybody is going to come with that energy. But if you submit it back to cinnabar, moth, and we went, please check whether or not our subs are open. If our subs are open, and you submit a book, and I like it, I may like it with notes. And then you as an author have to decide do you want? Do you want to polish it with us? Bad enough to take those notes? And for you? That was something that your first answer was? No, you did not want to take my notes. And then you went do another round of sensitivity readers. And you’re like, oh, wait a minute. Okay, this is a sensitivity issue. It’s not a preference issue. This is something I should listen to. I think you’re really open when you have sensitivity notes, but not when it’s a content note for preference.
C
Yeah, and for Imaginary Friends, I paid a couple of sensitivity readers for various parts of it, where I don’t know the background. And that was all before the press. And so yeah, I guess it’s a woke book.
K
And look back. Yeah.
C
Like some people might think I’m woke for trying to be woke for having sensitivity readers and things. And I’m like, No, I’m trying to be accurate.
K
So every single book that we published gets read by a sensitivity, at least one sensitivity reader, I try to have it read by at least five sensitivity readers. So it has nothing to do with our authors. And everything I do is what I think is best practices, because I’m not putting trying to put anything out there that makes someone feel bad for who they are. Yeah, you know, things that we can’t help about our identity. So I think with that I don’t tolerate that kind of bullying language at all on like, I’m doing what I’m doing, because it makes me it makes my day, you know, make me have more good days than bad and toot my horn. Yes, I that’s that’s a level of gravitas I roll with. So I think that just comes with the way I was born. I think so. It’s always been my mindset. I can’t make anyone happy if I’m not making myself happy with what I’m doing. And that would be my advice to authors is please yourself first. And I’ve had authors that say no, thank you and don’t publish with us. And I completely respect that. I think that that’s something that they have to take into consideration. Yes. Do you find that you are happy with the publishing process? Are there things in the process that still great your nerves now that you’re three bucks into it?
C
I think most of it is really good. I think the first bit is just hard.
K
That first bit writing the book. Yeah. Okay. What’s the first bit from Yeah. The book, okay. Right on, but you feel like the rest of it, like having the level of publicity that you have to do for it and communication that you have to do for it? Is that are you at a comfortable level with it?
C
I’m at a comfortable level with that. Yeah.
K
And do you find are you networking? I don’t know what you do outside of the things that the press does for all of its authors. Do you do things above and beyond what the press asked? to do, so we ask you to do this interview. Yeah. And then we do a virtual tour where you do guest blog post and interviews, as well. And then we have other interviews that we do that come from the press release that we do. And that’s about it in terms of what we asked you to do to promote. I think
C
the extent of what I do is like, if people ask, what do you do, rather than just telling them my job, I say, you know, I’m a published author, I’ve got these things. And that does lead some people to get interested, buy the book and read it, or your books on your LinkedIn bio. My books are not in my LinkedIn bio.
K
I got all your business and public. And I know you’re not that good at retweeting when we’re, I’m really not voting. Yeah, it’s promoting your books. And I don’t I try not to harsh, you know, authors mellow, in terms of how much promotion, right, do you? And I don’t know, the industry is kind of mixed on whether or not I’m taking the right approach on that. But again, you know, I’m doing me with all of that said, thank you for being an amazing guest. I know it might be kind of abrupt for you, but how is it for you this ending?
C
Now this is good.
K
I hope y’all enjoyed this interview and master. We’ll be back in two weeks with our next interview. And I believe our next interview is our author in residence, Cassandra Windwalker. Amazing not. Yeah, author, residents, winner of the poetry prize, amazing poet. So happy that we were able to get the founder of residency for the cinnabar moth side collection, just fabulous poet one of my favorite bullets. But back to you check because this is your interview. Can you tell the folks where to find you on social media?
C
You can find me at the music’s on Twitter. Or you can look me up on LinkedIn, which is a social media if you have questions about math or data.
K
Thank you to all of our beautiful cinnabar moths for listening and you don’t have to be a cinnabar moth. You can be any kind of moth you want to be and be sure to go pick up Chad’s latest novel, Imaginary Friends coming out. The first two things, dude, I don’t know what date is today. That is just so awesome. For me. June 2, may 2, may 2, what month is this may Hello, Kisstopher. It’s the end of April, May. So sorry. So bear with me. I am just being a really terrible wife. And also a terrible promoter.
C
And just for that pick up all three books.
K
Pick up Not My Ruckus pick up From the Lighthouse and you can visit cinnabar moth.com to and click on Books to find all of Chad’s books. Thank you so much for being an awesome guests and I’ll talk to you all next week. Bye bye.