The Path of Chaos Author Interview

Rasta
Hello cinnabar moths or any kind of moth you’d like to be welcome to the Writer’s Triangle, Cinnabar Moth;s podcast about all things publishing and books. Today we are here with Tom Haward, author of The Path of Chaos. Tom, how are you doing today?

T
Yeah, good. Thank you. Yeah, yes, it’s cold here in Essex in England. But I’ve managed to sneak off from work to do this, and getting the warmth of it. So it’s nice. My staff will hate me for it, but…

Rasta
When you got business to handle so they’ll have to deal with it.

T
Yeah. Yeah. I’m sure they won’t hate me for too long.

Rasta
So the path of coming, The Path of Chaos is coming out on this upcoming Tuesday. Are you feeling excited about the release of your book?

T
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m just trying to like, comprehend that, I’ve actually got a book coming out. It’s kind of a as you know, it’s something that I thought wouldn’t ever happen. So it’s actually wonderful to know that it’s actually going to be on bookshelves, and anyone anywhere can read it. So yeah, really excited. And just just kind of a little bit humbled as well, that, that, I’m going to see it in print. And that’s kind of like a project that you know, is you put your life and soul into it to say so to see it there physically, is going to be a wonderful thing.

Rasta
Imagine there’ll be a very fulfilling experience to be able to hold your work in your hands, right. And to be able to share it with the people around you. And the people, you know, knowing that people you don’t know even will be able to experience as well.

T
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, the people around me will probably get quite bored of me going on and on about it.

Rasta
And so how long ago did you start writing The Path of Chaos.

T
Um, it was when I started my master’s in creative writing back in 2016. So I originally had an idea for a kind of a multiverse novel. So there’s going to be four realities with like a golden thread running through each reality to connect them all. And there’s going to be like, a Victorian reality and a Western. And then one was a Roman. And the Roman side of it kind of drew me in more than the others. And so writing a multiverse kind of novel, I thought I could really focus on this whole dystopian thriller. Kind of element where Roman still ruled the world today. So that’s the area that I really kind of got absolutely. kind of drawn into, for like, for well, for that time onwards, and then then I kind of put it down and kind of thought, I don’t think this will ever get published and all this kind of stuff, and then pick it up again, and really went for it. But so yeah, I mean, 2016 says, what, six years, seven years of it’s been in the in the works, which I find kind of mind blowing now thinking about, it’s been that long, because it only seems like yesterday, I started writing it. Yeah, that’s been a while.

Rasta
Okay, so that’s quite a lengthy process there to get it from where it initially started to where it is now.

T
Yeah, yeah, has been and evolved and changed. And, yeah, it’s got a whole, it’s really got a whole new identity to what it was at the very beginning when I first started writing it. So that side of it was exciting as well, because I’m, like, interested to see how people receive it. And what people’s perception of it, because even my perception of it has changed dramatically since I started writing it.

Rasta
That makes a lot of sense, because I’ve experienced a similar thing with my book where initially, I started with this idea that I had in mind what it would be, and then as it evolved, I thought, actually, this other thing that’s developed interests me so much that I’m going to make this more fleshed out and then eventually became the main focus. And it’s barely recognizable to the original idea. But still a complete full story, right?

T
Yeah. Yeah. It’s fascinating, isn’t it, how that creative process happens and how you don’t know where your story’s going, even though you’re the one writing and I love that? Because then it makes it as exciting for the author as it does the reader to kind of discover the journey.

Rasta
Yeah, for sure. And so you said this took about six or seven years. What was that process like for you overall of starting and stopping it picking it back up and the evolution of the story?

T
It it was, in some ways, it was actually quite difficult because I I tend to Like goes across, like my life really like, I tend to first start something I want to get it done and get it finished and want to see it all the way through to the end and, and in fairly kind of like concise time. So this was a long time for me to do any kind of project. So I guess there was some frustration within more than frustration with myself because it wasn’t I didn’t enjoy writing, because I love writing, but I found it difficult because I was stopping and starting. So then at times, I was losing, like a sense of where I was going with it. So I really, when I finished it, when I got to that when I did finally finish it, and then kind of the final third or even the final half of it. I really didn’t take me long at all. So the first half probably took what a number of years. And then the second half, it took me a few months, you know, so because then I’ve really got kind of got my passion back into it and really kind of got focused and, and got real insight into where I wanted to go with it. So and then then it was really enjoyable to, to write. So yeah, it was it was it was, it was tricky, because it took so long. So but once once I got going, it was it was wonderful to kind of be in it and immersed in it.

Rasta
So you’d say the initial process of getting that start and stop sorted was a bit painful, maybe. But it went on?

T
Yeah. And I think and because and you know, when I was initially writing it, it was a will I ever find anyone who’s interested in it to, to, to publish it, you know? And, and then and then I met you guys.

Rasta
Yeah, speaking of meeting Cinnabar Moth, how did you discover us?

T
Um, it’s actually through my twin. So he, he, I think he he was interacting with you guys on Twitter, I think that was initially and he had a short story published with you. And then and then we connected because I did a short story with you guys. And that then evolved from there. So I did a short story. And thankfully, you liked it and wanted to publish it. And then asked about if I was doing anything of more substance like longer. And that’s when I then sent you over what was at that point, quite a small part of The Path of Chaos to see what you thought.

Rasta
So you had that initial introduction to your your twin. And then from there, you worked with us for the short story. And what made you ultimately decide to publish The Path of Chaos with us?

T
Because you wanted it. I mean, partly, I mean, to be fair, a lot of it. I mean, it’s actually quite, you suddenly realized when people are interested in what is a very personal thing, you then have to kind of look at who they are and whether they will treat what is a very personal thing with respects, you know, because you’re worried that there could be a lot of worries and about how your work will be handled. And what I loved about cinnabar was there’s a very, very personal touch. It feels it does, there’s a very family element to what you do. And that’s and that gives you confidence that it will be treated with respect and that and that is in some ways, it’s about that integrity as a publisher that goes above anything else really that made me interested in you all

Rasta
I’m really happy to hear that you feel that you felt going into it that your work would be treated with respect and the time and energy you put into creating this child of your of your ideas wouldn’t be treated with the respect that it deserves. Because that is something that we at cinnabar moth do care deeply about. It’s making sure that our authors feel respected through the process and like their, their work and their effort is still theirs at the end of the day.

T
Yeah, yeah. And it’s lovely. Yeah, really lovely. So I’m really pleased to be working with you guys.

Rasta
And we’re happy to be working with you as well. And so I wanted to ask you a bit about the publication with us. What would you say has been the most surprising thing about publishing this environment?

T
The Well, the most surprising thing, actually, to be fair is is how ignorant I was to the publishing process. So I didn’t know didn’t realize what really was involved with it all. So that was really surprising. Just all the elements are involved with it. And actually, that’s why it takes, like, from when you kind of finish your draft to actually being printed and published and available the time it takes. Yeah, so that was surprising.

Rasta
Okay, so kind of the amount of effort that it takes to get from, oh, we have the finished story to now we have a publishable book.

T
Yeah, it’s, it’s faster. It’s also more fascinating and surprising. Really? Yeah.

Rasta
So before, he didn’t really have much knowledge of the publication process for a novel.

T
No, not really. No, just kind of generic stuff. But now I didn’t realize the what was really involved with it to the extent that, that it was so yeah. Yeah, that was, that was great. It’s been great learning about it all.

Rasta
So having learned about the publication process and gone through it, looking back on it, do you? Do you feel like you might have changed some things? Or do you feel good about what you went through with? how you went about it?

T
I don’t know, is anyone ever really happy with what they’ve done? I mean, I’m nearly started reading through it all the other day. And then I was like, what you doing because it’s too late. Now you can’t change anything, you’ve just got to like, embrace it, and go with it, and enjoy, enjoy it as it is, because this is the finished product, you know, so because I think you can change and change and change things all the time. I did that with my masters, you know, when they’re doing creative works for my masters, you can end up over over analyzing it and changing and changing and changing and never being happy. And then actually making it not as good as kind of the initial kind of creation where because when you start, I don’t know about you if you’re the same, but like, when you start writing something, you just go and flow with it, you kind of almost have to trust that initial process, and then just tweak it. But if you start chopping it up too much, you it becomes something it’s not meant to be. So yeah, so whatever. Whatever people read is like, you know, is like I’m happy with that. Because otherwise, you’re just you’re just kind of overthinking all the time.

Rasta
Yeah, definitely. I agree that there’s kind of this balance, right, where you do need to do some trimming and some shade and some reworking to make things really smooth. But if you go too hard, it ends up actually detracting from the story or you end up being overly critical of things that really do work fine. And make sense.

T
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And the thing is, you start second guessing, you start second guessing what, what the Read is feeling and that you just can’t be doing that, because you’ve just got to trust your instincts, I think.

Rasta
Yeah, I do think that it’s kind of hard to guess what a reader will feel right. Because completely different people.

T
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Rasta
And so The Path of Chaos is coming out this coming Tuesday. Do you have any plans to celebrate the release of the book?

T
Yeah, we’re gonna do a little launch at my, my local pub. So because I’ve been boring all my friends and locals about the book for four months now about it. So now they’re gonna have to buy one which is, but yeah, so we’re going to, we’re going to have a little kind of a launch at my local pub and of because I’m an oyster farmer, we’ll do some oysters and some champagne and, and then like, and hopefully some people will buy some books and I can sign them and yeah, just kind of celebrate that locally. That’d be really nice. Because it’s nice just to be in my community and, and hopefully, other people will enjoy kind of seeing it in pub, you know, published and will want to buy it and share it with others and all that so that’s what we’re giving. That’s what we’re gonna do. Yeah.

Rasta
That sounds really nice that you have this community around you that’s supportive and that you can enjoy this experience with

T
Yeah, I don’t have a choice really. I’ll just keep going on about it.

Rasta
And so is your family also excited about The Path of Chaos is release? Yeah.

T
My my fiancee is like yeah, she’s really she’s really excited about it and has just been really supportive through the whole thing. So That’s lovely. And my twin he, he’s really excited because he’s a fellow writer. So he knows kind of, you know, that kind of process as well. So, yeah, it’s lovely. My little girl, she’s too young to really understand what’s going on because she’s only two, but it’s gonna be wonderful for her as she especially wonderful when as she gets older, and she will sit on a bookshelf at home and then start to realize that that’s what her dad wrote. So that’s really lovely. Yeah, I’m looking forward to when she kind of comprehends that. Yeah.

Rasta
I can imagine that’d be exciting to have your own child, right. Come into the reading atmosphere and read your writing and be excited by it.

T
Yeah, hope she likes it when she I mean, she because she already I mean, surely loves books. I mean, she absolutely loves. Like, this morning, she wanted to she had she, we had to read her three stories this morning. So she just like devours books already. So it’s lovely. So hopefully she’ll like what I write. Hopefully, she might not she might be like my biggest critic. So that might you know, that’s not a bad thing. So

Rasta
I mean, either way, you’ll have that interaction with your with your daughter to share with right?

T
Yeah, absolutely. No, yes. That’s great. Yeah. So yeah, I’m gonna love my family and my friends who are very much family. They’re, you know, they’re, you know, they’re excited about it. They take the mickey out of me about it all the time. But actually, that I know, they are excited, because, because, yeah, they’ve seen, you know, the, the how hard it is to write a novel. It’s really hard work. So yes, they are excited to.

Rasta
And that’s wonderful. And to follow up on that excitement, and that feeling of, you know, that positive feeling of a book release? How does it feel to know that your book will be listed in the US Library of Congress?

T
Yeah, that’s weird. Because if you think about what else is in the that library, and you think what my book is going to be alongside those, that’s quite bizarre. So yes. I love to have a, I love to have a trip to America, basically, to have a look when I say,

Rasta
Yeah, that could be an exciting trip, you could plan out for the future, right?

T
Yeah, that’d be, that’d be awesome. But ya know, it’s great. Then I think, oh, it’s gonna be libraries and stuff. That’s amazing that people were, you know, because I mean, libraries. In Britain, I don’t know about elsewhere. But in Britain, libraries, unfortunately, are being closed here, there and everywhere. Which is really sad. But there are, but there’s a lot of people fighting for libraries to, you know, to be open, because they’re real community hubs. And so it’s gonna be really nice to serve locally to see that see my book, hopefully, in local libraries. And yeah, and that people can reach because that’s the other thing people can then read it for free. You know, and that’s really nice.

Rasta
Yeah. Do you think libraries are a wonderful source of community and a way for people who may not otherwise have the opportunity to explore a lot of different books and experience a lot of writers and styles and just reading as a whole?

T
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s, yeah, it’s important that people have access to be able to just read, because it’s one of those things that I mean, he’s had a renaissance in this country has had a renaissance where book sales have soared again, because there was a massive drop in book sales in the UK. And now, it’s kind of gone the other way. And there’s been a renaissance of people passionate about reading. So it’s really good. It’s really good. So yeah, so hopefully, my my book will be part of that.

Rasta
And so with the release of The Path of Chaos, what do you hope happens next?

T
Well, I hope, I hope that it gets a good reception, and lots of people enjoy it. But then also, like, I’ve just, it’s, I’m kind of hoping that it kind of leads on to other things may be like, I want to, I kind of want to be able to do events and kind of showcase it and things and hopefully, people have an interest and I can go and do like talks and readings and things like that. I really would like to do maybe a little book tour or something. That’d be cool. Funny. And also just hold it for me like because I’m not just it’s not just about writing this novel, like, I’m really I’ve been working on a sitcom for ages and ages and ages and I haven’t really managed to finish it. So this might spare me to finish that sitcom, and maybe find someone interested in that. So yeah, so it’s just it’s part of like, hopefully just to keep me going with the creative process. On top of everything else.

Rasta
Do you think that’d be wonderful? It helps keep your creative fires burn Doing and yeah, keeps you pushing forward in your, in your writing and in your other creative efforts. Yeah. And so following up on your creative efforts and these projects, are you aiming for writing to be your career?

T
Probably not. Well, maybe. I mean, I say, maybe maybe not because I run a business. But then I’ve been running a business all this time and writing a novel, and I’ve managed to do the do both. So yeah, I mean, if I can be writing and, and having that as a major source of income, and in a major part, so what I do like I have been already, then yeah, I love it. Like, if I keep finding interesting, what, if people are interested in what I write, then I’ll keep going with him? Because I do love it. And I would like, there’s so much more. I’ve got so much more I’ve got to give in regards to what I’m writing. So yeah, if it can be. Because I’ve got a great team of people within my business. And they they run things brilliantly. When I’m busy with other things. So yeah, I think I could actually probably keep those two together. That’d be good.

Rasta
So for you wouldn’t be writing being your only career, but rather balancing your current business as an oyster farmer and running that, as well as the writing kind of in tandem?

T
Yeah, I think so. Because I love both and I don’t really want to do one or the other. So yeah, definitely one of the continuing to, to write. But yeah, having that working alongside what I’m doing already. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because who needs who needs to be? You know, sleeping or or resting?

Rasta
I mean, you’ve got passions to pursue who neat who has time for sleep? Yeah, absolutely. And so following up on this idea of pursuing your passion with writing and your creative energies, if The Path of Chaos were to become a best seller, do you have any plans? Or what do you think you’d do? I think

T
I’ll probably faint, the the idea of best seller. And then once I’ve recovered from that, I’ll probably do that thing where if I say in the newspaper, when you got like at the top 10 best sellers of that week or that month or something, obviously, I’ll cut that out and then stick it up somewhere. And then, like, just kind of stare at that constantly. But I think I think if he became a best seller, then oh, I don’t know, maybe. Maybe I would give up being always to fall.

Rasta
And you’d be like, Y’all have the business. You have it under control. I’m pursuing my career in writing.

T
Absolutely. So you have a broad? Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I will say, I think if it if it did become a best seller, then I would you know, then yeah, I would just embrace that. And whatever that whatever that entails. I’m sure that it then changed things in how I approach lots of what I do. So I just, yeah, I’ll just go with the flow on it and see what happens. Absolutely.

Rasta
And so following up on the idea of, you know, The Path of Chaos becoming a best seller and this explosion of popularity, right? If it were to become a movie or TV series. Do you have an idea of maybe people you’d want to cast for certain roles?

T
I’ve always loved sorry. Printer going mad. I’ve always if who would I want to be cast? I’ve always, I’ve always loved Matthew McConaughey. I just think he’s wonderful. And I don’t even know who I’d cast who would be in the in the in in the pastor chaos, but I think he’s great. So I just want him in somehow involved in the show, because he’s a wonderful actor. Yeah, but I haven’t really thought about that, to be honest. Because I don’t know. I’ve been I think I’d be amazed it does get made into a TV series or movie. So but yeah, Matthew McConaughey will be wonderful in it because he’s such a great actor. You have I don’t really know who else yeah, that’s good question actually. But I think as well, like, I find I love it yourself. Or and I think he’d be a great Maverick to be honest. He is, cuz he would be quite foreboding as Maverick. Yeah, yeah, he’d be a good man. If work

Rasta
was not something, you’d get a lot of thought, but off the top of your head, you have a couple that you think would be really interesting, or that you’d want to see in a potential movie or book, or TV series.

T
Yeah, and that’s the thing, but then also like, my idea, because everyone has their own ideas, when you’re when you’re reading a book, you’ve already kind of you have an idea in your head of what these people who these people are and what they look like. And if there was a TV show, you know, what they did? Who would be ideal is them. So, you know, as I’ve seen, so tons of adaptations, no one’s ever happy about asking. Quite chilled out about it, I think.

Rasta
So, with the idea, do you think you’d prefer The Path of Chaos to become a TV show over a movie?

T
Yeah, I think TV show cuz I think I think I think a movie, just unless it’s, unless it’s quite a long movie, I think like, sometimes you can’t quite explore some of the depths of the characters. And so a TV show, you can really like explore these characters much, much more and kind of really get to the, to the heart of who they are. And so that’s I think the TV show TV shows is becoming the new movies, aren’t they in, in the fact that you could like really dig deep into into a book over like, six, eight episodes. And I think that’s like, I think that does a lot of justice to the source material. And I think authors become happier about that as well. So yeah, I’d love to see as a TV show.

Rasta
Okay, so let’s imagine that, you know, The Path of Chaos has been picked up for a TV show, the series is going to be happening, would you want to have a lot of creative control over that process.

T
I’d like to be involved in the sense that my opinions saw about certain elements. But again, I think if you’ve got someone who’s like a showrunner or director or, or a screenwriter, like they’re going to, they’re going to see something in it that you haven’t as an author, and they’re going to, maybe they’re going to take an element from it that really stands out for them that you as an author didn’t really see a significant and when I run with that side of it, so I’d like to, I like to see the process and be involved in the process. But I think I wouldn’t be particularly controlling or about it. I mean, I’ve never been a micromanager anyway, so I’ve never, I’ve always liked to see people just kind of explore what they’re doing in their own way. And I think even because I’ve written this book, but other people are going to take that book, and if it did get made into a TV show, they’ll take it and run with it in their own way. And I’d be quite excited to see how they interpret it really. So yeah, I’d actually be quite excited to just to see what their interpretation was. And then, and then see how it turned out on screen. So I’m, I’m not particularly possessive in that way. Because once once it’s written and gone out there, in a sense, when someone reads it, they’ve, they own it in their own minds in a different way. So, so if someone’s going to turn it into something else, then yeah, I’m quite excited to see what I do with it.

Rasta
That makes a lot of sense to me. I, I do think that there is a sort of beauty in a way to seeing somebody take your work and interpret it in their own way and represent it in a new medium and perhaps emphasize things and bring to light things that in our minds may not have been a focus.

T
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s just interesting how people view things and interpret things. So yeah, that have just been so the fact that I mean, quite honestly, someone said oh, by the way, we’re making the past cows into into a TV show. Here’s some money or whatever, go Just wherever you want

Rasta
You can be be like okay, I’m Happy Cool.

T
Yeah.

Rasta
So let’s imagine now that The Path of Chaos to get picked up you know, they’ve said here’s your money, right? It’s gone through the process. Would you want to go to the premiere of The Path of Chaos and if you did, who would you take with you?

T
Yeah I’d love to go to the premiere. Yeah, that’d be amazing. That’d be cocky. Imagine like, sitting there watching it on big screen or something that would be epic. Cuz I mean, I’ve always been a I mean, I’ve always been a movie fan. I did a film degree before I did my masters in creative writing. And so the cinema for me is, is still as magical as it ever has been. So when I say in a cinema I I do get really excited about when when like a film starts and you get like, like the intro of like the studio has made it. So, I yeah, I would absolutely adore to go to the premiere and I take Gemma my fiancee cuz yeah, I mean she’s not a big movie fan but or, but she loves she loves, like TV miniseries and all that. So whatever way I think I think she’d be able to enjoy sitting through a premiere with me, because that’d be pretty good see, wouldn’t it?

Rasta
I can imagine that’d be quite exciting, even if perhaps, it was if it was a movie or a TV show may not interest her as much, but then it’s your book and a TV or movie. And that about Angeles? Really.

T
I mean, it’s funny, cuz I mean, I mean, what I write is not what the kind of thing she reads. So, when I’ve been getting her to read chapters and things in the in, while I’ve been writing it, just, you know, for continuity reasons, and you know, for, you know, grammatical mistakes and things like that, like, I’ve kind of felt for a bit because she says it’s good. And the writing is good, but she’s like, I would never read this, though. So how’s it to fair, so someone made it into a movie or TV series, and really kind of changed, it might actually become more interesting for

Rasta
Yeah, who knows. I know, personally, from having read through The Path of Chaos that I’ve enjoyed it, and the style that you have with it. So I think that there’s definitely an audience for it. You know, people like me and people, and other people as well will surely have an interest for it.

T
Yeah, I know, I’m coming. I’m quite confident in what I’ve written. And I’m really pleased with it. And I think, I think, yeah, I do think it will attract a lot of people. So yeah, I’ve got quite a confidence about that.

Rasta
That’s good. And so with this idea, right, of pursuing writing, and having more people connect with your writing and having an audience, do you think that you’d like to become very famous and well known, perhaps, let’s say on the extreme end, as well known as Stephen King, where people might stop you on the street? Or would you want smaller fame where you still have some of your anonymity?

T
I mean, like, I do, I mean, just because of the work I do, we we get a lot of media interest, because of because our family’s story. We I mean, we’ve been farming oysters on in Essex since the 1700s. And so we’re like the oldest oyster farming family in the world. And so we get media interest from that all the time, and newspapers and all this kind of stuff, and radio, and so I do a lot of that stuff. And I actually really love it. And everyone takes the mickey out of me because they think I love the limelight a bit too much. So to be fair, if I became famous, or so I think I would probably lap it up to be honest, I’m not. I’m not particularly shy when it comes to that kind of things. Yeah. Yeah, I’d probably enjoy it. Yeah, no, I would enjoy it.

Rasta
I mean, that’s awesome that you have the energy for it, and that you connect with, you know, the, the big screen, in a sense, right, and having your face be out there and, and be able to share your story, right?

T
Yeah, I do enjoy. I mean, I just, I like talking so it’s, you know, so if people would interview me and stuff I’m quite happy about.

Rasta
Speaking of interviews, I’d like to thank you, Tom, for talking with me today and being on the writers triangle.

T
No worries. Thanks for having me. It’s been it’s been great chatting.

Rasta
It’s been wonderful having you on and I’d like to thank all of our beautiful moss for listening. Be sure to by The Path of Chaos coming out this upcoming Tuesday. Tom, can you tell us where everybody can find you? Social Media website, all of that?

T
Yeah, I’ve got a website which is actually Tom Haward.com. And I’ve got Twitter which is Haward Tom. So you can find me there and actually on Twitter there’s a link tree on my on my page. So then that takes it to my website and other bits and bobs that I do so yeah, yeah, there’s that’s a good way of finding me and then connecting with what I’m what I’m writing, and then you’ll see links to buying the book as well.

Rasta
Wonderful, and for everybody listening, be sure to visit cinnabar moth.com to check out the transcripts will also have the link to Tom’s social media. Tom once again, thank you for coming on today. It’s been a wonderful Last time talking with you thank you and we’ll talk to you next time bye bye